Is counter-rotating drive worth the dough

[AKBASSKING]

To my knowledge SeaRay never use a counter rotating engine, I have only heard of that is some early Chris Craft models.

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my stbd engine rotate opposite my port....

 

[Publicnuisance]

I stand corrected.

 

[jpn867]

Are you sure that don't already have counter rotating props?My friend had 1988 300 Sundancer/ Merc 260's Alpha 1's and it had counter rotating props. I forget if his drivers were different or if one of his engines ran backwards. (Different crank)

Vince I am certain that mine is not counter rotating. I had the boat surveyed and asked that specific question as well as had it confirmed when the boat was recently delivered.

Publicnuisance, I appreciate the info about the bearings. Thats makes sense and I guess I need to get more information before i decide to make the switch. I have noticed in other threads that most seem to notice the difference in how the boat handles with the counter rotating drives but if its not going to hold up I don't think its worth it. I get home from a one year (OIF) deployment in December and plan to purchase my new engine and drive, if i decide, and pull the boat out of the water in the spring and take care of the work.

I will update with my decision and results when the time comes. I think this site is a wealth of information and i find myself reading everyday to learn more from others experiences. I have many questions but will find the proper thread or create a new one to discuss each specific question. the drives were one question. I am thinking of adding the closed cooling system when i replace the port engine and hope to get more info on that, like if its worth the money. My boat is kept in the water in the Gulf and will strictly be in salt water. I am thinking the extra $1,000 will be a good investment.

I am curious about the 4 blade prop if anyone can tell me if that is something i can do on my boat and if that is a noticeable difference even if you do NOT have counter rotating props. Is there a big difference in cost of the 4 blade over the 3 blade?

 

[BlewByYou88]

Vince I am certain that mine is not counter rotating. I had the boat surveyed and asked that specific question as well as had it confirmed when the boat was recently delivered.

Publicnuisance, I appreciate the info about the bearings. Thats makes sense and I guess I need to get more information before i decide to make the switch. I have noticed in other threads that most seem to notice the difference in how the boat handles with the counter rotating drives but if its not going to hold up I don't think its worth it. I get home from a one year (OIF) deployment in December and plan to purchase my new engine and drive, if i decide, and pull the boat out of the water in the spring and take care of the work.

I will update with my decision and results when the time comes. I think this site is a wealth of information and i find myself reading everyday to learn more from others experiences. I have many questions but will find the proper thread or create a new one to discuss each specific question. the drives were one question. I am thinking of adding the closed cooling system when i replace the port engine and hope to get more info on that, like if its worth the money. My boat is kept in the water in the Gulf and will strictly be in salt water. I am thinking the extra $1,000 will be a good investment.

I am curious about the 4 blade prop if anyone can tell me if that is something i can do on my boat and if that is a noticeable difference even if you do NOT have counter rotating props. Is there a big difference in cost of the 4 blade over the 3 blade?

Okay, I can't believe there is this much dicussion on all of this. If both your props turn in the same direction, or blades match identically between both props you dont have a counter rotating set-up. Depending on when and where the vessel came from in the Sea Ray line up Prior to 1990 You may actually have an engine that is in oposite rotation of the other. You can verify this by looking at the firing order. Left hand and Right hand engines have different firing orders.

The counter roatation Alpha drive was an after thought, and like it has already been said, it swaps the foward gear being used down in the Torpedo of the drive.

Inboard rotating props give you better hole shot, and better speed (Lifts the Stern)

Outboard rotation gives better handleing/Manouverability and brings the stern down into the water

Inboard rotation = Port Prop going clockwise (When looking from the Stern FOward) STBD COunter clockwise

Outboard Roatation = Port Prop going Counter Clockwise
Stbd Clockwise.

I know there are concerns about the stress being shifted to a weaker part of the drive with a counter rotating unit, but when I have the money I think I would still like to install one on by boat.

 

[jpn867]

Okay, I can't believe there is this much dicussion on all of this. If both your props turn in the same direction, or blades match identically between both props you dont have a counter rotating set-up. Depending on when and where the vessel came from in the Sea Ray line up Prior to 1990 You may actually have an engine that is in oposite rotation of the other. You can verify this by looking at the firing order. Left hand and Right hand engines have different firing orders.

The counter roatation Alpha drive was an after thought, and like it has already been said, it swaps the foward gear being used down in the Torpedo of the drive.

Inboard rotating props give you better hole shot, and better speed (Lifts the Stern)

Outboard rotation gives better handleing/Manouverability and brings the stern down into the water

Inboard rotation = Port Prop going clockwise (When looking from the Stern FOward) STBD COunter clockwise

Outboard Roatation = Port Prop going Counter Clockwise
Stbd Clockwise.

I know there are concerns about the stress being shifted to a weaker part of the drive with a counter rotating unit, but when I have the money I think I would still like to install one on by boat.

I appreciate you response however I don't think anyone is confused as to what direction the rotation is. I was simple asking if I would need the entire outdrive (upper and lower) or just the lower unit in order to change the rotation of my port engine. I asked the question of the 4 blade props regardless of the rotation just to see if anyone had a 3 blade and went to a 4 blade and had any noticeable improvements. My question was answered as to the outdrive I need only replace the lower unit if i care to go that route and it was mentioned that by design it might not be as reliable because of the type of bearing that is used for the counter rotating outdrive. You mention you would change yours and I am curious if you are comfortable with the design of the counter rotating outdrive or know of someone that has done this and have had no problems. I think with the three year warranty it might be worth a try. Regardless of which drive you chose to change the counter rotating one will basically run in reverse correct? and do you feel there is any reason for concern as to the previous comment that that might be a poor design? That is good information on the inward and outward rotation i was unaware of the different results, thanks for the helpful information. I still have some time to decide if its worth the money to change although it does seem pretty easy.

 

[JVM225]

I researched this earlier this year, and almost did the swap. I found what was supposed to be a good used counter rotating lower unit for an Alpha1 Gen 1 for a good price. It looked good when I got it, but it wasn't counter rotating. Luckily I found this out before I installed it, so I returned it to the seller.
To make the swap you need to install a counter rotating lower unit on the port side. You only need the lower unit because that's where the counter rotation happens.
Then you need to change the position for the shift cable at the helm control so that forward will be where reverse was, and reverse will be where forward was.
When the lower unit I got fell through I contacted SEI to see about buying a new one. They told me there would be no problem using one of their lower units with a Mercruiser upper. If I remember correctly, the price for the new counter rotating lower unit from SEI was $895.
My boat just came out of the water today, and I pulled the outdrives off for storage and service in the spring. I'm still considering the swap with the lower unit from SEI before the boat goes back in the water.
While I was researching the swap I was told that Mercuiser didn't make counter rotating Alpha 1 Gen 1's when these boats were new. They did start to make counter rotating Alpha 1 Gen 2's. With the success of the Gen 2's, owners with Gen 1"s showed interest in retrofitting their boats too, so Mercuiser started making counter rotating Alpha 1 Gen 1's for sales to the aftermarket.

 

[BlewByYou88]

I appreciate you response however I don't think anyone is confused as to what direction the rotation is. I was simple asking if I would need the entire outdrive (upper and lower) or just the lower unit in order to change the rotation of my port engine. I asked the question of the 4 blade props regardless of the rotation just to see if anyone had a 3 blade and went to a 4 blade and had any noticeable improvements. My question was answered as to the outdrive I need only replace the lower unit if i care to go that route and it was mentioned that by design it might not be as reliable because of the type of bearing that is used for the counter rotating outdrive. You mention you would change yours and I am curious if you are comfortable with the design of the counter rotating outdrive or know of someone that has done this and have had no problems. I think with the three year warranty it might be worth a try. Regardless of which drive you chose to change the counter rotating one will basically run in reverse correct? and do you feel there is any reason for concern as to the previous comment that that might be a poor design? That is good information on the inward and outward rotation i was unaware of the different results, thanks for the helpful information. I still have some time to decide if its worth the money to change although it does seem pretty easy.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off condescending, even though after reading my post, it kinda felt that way. I'm not worried about the integrity because many people have used them without issue, plus I'm running a 4.3L V-6 and I haven't heard of many V-6 blowing drives apart. If it really was poor design or inferior, companies wouldn't try to produce them.

As far as four blade props are concerned, I've only read and researched them and have come to the conclusion they are not worth the money. Four blade props will produce a better hole shot, but lack the high end speed of a three blade prop. The most effecient props have the least amount of blades.

 

[JimFromMD]

II asked the question of the 4 blade props regardless of the rotation just to see if anyone had a 3 blade and went to a 4 blade and had any noticeable improvements.

We made the switch to counter rotating on our 1987 270 with 4.3 V6s. Also went to 4 bladed props. Although our switch in setup was thanks to hitting a submerged branch out in the bay, I would definitely do it again. My Dad likes the setup much better as well (his boat). See post #17 this thread.

We have not seen any drop in handling or speed at WOT. Boat does plane a bit quicker, runs more smoothly, and no longer wanders like it did with non counter rotating drives.