Inexperienced Captian????

[Warwgn]

I see a lot of posts talking about how an Inexperienced Captian can’t do this, or a new boater should not do this, or that is something only the experts should do. With all of that is seems nobody should be able to take a boat out on the water because they don’t have what it takes to be on the water, but how do they get the needed experience or learn the right way unless they get out there and become an expert?
Darwin award people are just on their own and will do what they do no matter what and that is a given, but for the rest of us and those that think about what they are doing how do experts get made? Not everybody out there has time or availability to be babysat by an expert for however long it takes to master a skill, if that were the case there would surely only be a handful of boats on the water. So I am curious what do you all think is acceptable for a person to learn on their own, or more so do you consider yourself an expert and if so how much time do you spend training others to be experts?
I am not trying to be funny or a smart AZZ, just really asking what is considered acceptable to the general boating community.

 

[CliffA]

you don't have to be experienced to be able to recognize potentially unsafe situations or to realize when you don't have the skill and confidence to handle your boat in certain situations and need some instruction from more experienced boaters......

it is the people that think they know everything and think they are invincible or so macho that they think they can do anything and ignore the risk that we condemn on this forum....

these people are either too arrogant or too stupid to ask for help and as a result put themselves and their passengers and other boaters at risk....

if you think you don't have time to engage a more seasoned boater for assistance and guidance then you need to make the time vs. going out and banging into things to get the experience....

cliff

 

[SWF340]

you don't have to be experienced to be able to recognize potentially unsafe situations or to realize when you don't have the skill and confidence to handle your boat in certain situations and need some instruction from more experienced boaters......cliff

There's a lot of good in that statement. Doing a lot of mental boating helps tremendously, ie., think about what you would do and how you would do it in different situations.

That said, when it comes to boat-handling, you have to learn on the water. Simple suggestions like, around the docks only go as fast as you're willing to hit the dock, will help. I think it's worth banging into the side of your rubrail so you learn how sturdy it is.

The big one to remember is boats don't have brakes, and don't think you're going to expertly throw it into reverse going 30mph and slow yourself down. At 1-2mph, yeah.

As Cliff said, it's the guy that thinks he knows it all and has 10 hours on the water in his 17'er at Lake Hilljack that gets in trouble.

In 2015, only 15% percent of deaths occurred onvessels where the operator had received a nationally-approved boating safety education course. Something to consider. The Coast Guard recorded 4158 recreational boating related accidents, with 1460 being caused by collision.

Here's the link to the USCG Accident Stats report: http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2015.pdf

One very important thing to remember is there aren't so many accidents that it seems like boating is a dangerous activity. One doesn't feel like, "gee whiz I went boating today and saw 15 accidents!" The point is despite all the lack of formal training and this and that, the vast, vast majority of the boating public will have a fun and safe day on the water.

It's like guns and boats. Easily 50% of boaters carry guns aboard their boats. That sounds crazy to me, but it must not be a problem because we don't read about boat-related shootings all the time. I can't think of even one story offhand, I'm sure others can recite plenty.

Take your boat out, enjoy being on the water. Practice in areas where it isn't crowded. Go slow at first, most people think they have to go fast to enjoy boating. Anyone that calls himself an expert isn't. There is always something to learn.

GO SLOW...you'll be fine.

 

[liv2ryde100]

get out there and put your time in. everytime you go you should reflect on your trip and see if you learned anything, especially while docking. maybe the wind or current was different one day, or maybe u noticed that around a full moon on a low tide you could see a shoaling area that you never noticed. you start to form your own boundaries and if you decide to push them you take your time and dont risk anyones lives in the process. i myself take the boat out alot at night to happy hours at restaurants or dinners. but when i figured out its alot harder coming home at night at low tide when there is a new moon, i now avoid going in those conditions. if i got stuck in that situation i would probably idle home. the situations you find yourself in are endless, just have to evaluate it and figure out what you learned.

 

[liv2ryde100]

maybe the way is to always think you are inexperienced and you have something to learn, but other people would say you are a seasoned captain. haha.

 

[CV-23]

Let me speak as a boater since the age of 10 and I'm now 56 and a 100T Master. Buying a 30ft boat with no boating experience is a reality for some. Taking a safe boating course would be a no brainer and also some mentoring time from an experienced boater in your area. A 5 ton boat is not a toy and neither is a car or truck. Knowing the rules of the road on the water is important. If you boat in a shipping area with large ships, making a rookie mistake could cost you and your guests their lives. There are so many variables in places to boat you should have another boater familiar with the area take you for a ride on your own boat! It's a good time with a fellow boater and will save you aggravation and stress being aware of your area you boat. I started with a 12ft row boat and now Captain a 95 ton steel hull Coast Guard Inspected boat. I had to crew 90 days to even take the 100T USCG test. When we got our 270 Sundancer 10 years ago I felt like a rookie and I boated this area my whole life! We still have our 23ft boat (for 20 years) and the 270 seemed like a huge step at the time. Get seat time and go slow and enjoy your time on the water. Captain Mike.

 

[Boater420]

I in no way claim to be an expert however, I've been boating on the water since I was 12 years old and here's my story.

I've been swimming since I was 3. Lake swimming mostly, residential pools and the Atlantic from time to time. When I was 8 my parents moved near a lake and made some new friends with boats. I was always watching the operators and took note of how they drove whether just tooling around or towing a skier. I was usually the last one to ski because I was more fascinated watching the skipper driving the boat.

Eventually I was allowed to drive the boat when we were slow cruising around the lake. Even at slow speeds I was able to learn how to watch gauges, listen for things that didn't sound right, balance out loads and secure a boat back at the dock. All of these lessons were learned slowly over the course of a few summers.

My grandfather was too old to fish when I was 12 so he gave us his 12 ft Sears GameFisher rowboat. It had a 3.5 HP Johnson outboard and oars. I asked my parents if I could use the boat during the summer and they agreed as long as I used the oars and not the outboard. For the next two summers I rowed that boat around the lake learning what it was to be a boat owner. My only requirements were to get that boat off the water by dusk and keep it from filling up with water when it rained.

By my 14th birthday I was allowed to use the outboard and with it came new lessons. I learned how to mix 2 stroke, replace spark plugs, change out shear pins and pay for gas. I also learned how to slow down a boat using reverse and how long it took to stop a boat. I drove that boat until I was 16, but by then a bunch of my friends started driving their parents speed boats. The first boat I ever drove fast was a Glastron CV16 with a 115 HP Merc. It was blazing fast and scary at first but over the course of a few summers I learned how to tow a skier, how and when to trim a motor and how boats plane.

We moved to Florida when I was 19 and for a few years I was busy with school and didn't even think of buying a boat. After school I purchased my first used boat with a tax refund. It was '71 Checkmate with an inline 6 150 HP Merc. I knew how to drive in a lake but we were now in the inter-coastal waterways. I had no idea salt water would be such a learning curve. Anchoring in a current, shallow water, channel markers, storms that came out of nowhere, other boaters, drunks and police ready to write you a ticket for any infractions. The biggest deal was launching at the boat ramp. It was a whole new world for me and one I took slowly for the next few years. I only went out in the day, stayed away from busy boat ramps, didn't overload the boat with people and tried to learn as much as I could from other boaters.

Over the next 30 years I owned 4 more boats. A 19 foot Imperial bow rider with a Volvo Penta I/O, a 20 ft Wellcraft, a 22 foot Sunbird Cuddy and now the Sundancer. All of which progressively got larger in size, had more power and came with more owner responsibilities. When I purchased the Sundancer I had never driven twins before. I asked my son, who was in the Coast Guard for 6 years, and had him show me the ropes over a 250 mile trip home through the Okeechobee waterway and up the west coast of Florida. I learned a lot over the next 3 days and am still learning new things each time I take her out.

I agree with Cliff, people need to make the time. Most new boaters underestimate how fast things can go wrong on the water. If they're not hurting themselves they're endangering other boaters or property. If you can't hire a captain go to a lake and practice driving where nobody else is around. Practice docking, breaking a plane, coming off a plane, and trimming. Drive a figure eight in forward and reverse. Go to a boat ramp on a weeknight and practice backing down the ramp.

I guess the biggest thing to learn is not to bite off more than you can chew. Know your limitations.

 

[Warwgn]

Great constructive advice so far!! I am doing most of what you guys are saying, but I am mostly on my own except for what I see here, and I have seen some really good advice and comments that I have used already, like the go as fast as you’re willing to hit the dock! Also on anchoring, I learned that on here and it worked great in practice.

As you may know I have a small boat, just an 18.5’ and it was cheap with not much investment at all, but it is safe for me and guests. I boat only in the local reservoir and river for now, both of which are shallow and move very slow. I am not overly concerned with this boat or my capabilities in it and I am using this as a basic course to learn as much as possible about the dynamics of controlling a boat. I have made clear my intent is to purchase a 270 Sundancer with twins in the future and use it to go to the Bahamas, so I have a whole lot to learn before then. I have not even really started seriously delving into open water or ICW boating yet but know enough to know I got a lot of learning to do. I would like to rebuild the Seville and take it to the gulf and give it a shot so I can learn the waves and tides and such, but that will be after I go out on a boat with someone who knows all that stuff. I have been on ships, but not any small boats in the ocean, it makes me laugh at myself because I remember looking down at the resupply ships from the deck of the Aircraft Carrier I was stationed on and thinking that is crazy to be out here on those “small” boats. I am sure there is a big difference in the middle of the Pacific ocean next to an Aircraft Carrier throwing a wake and just being under your own power alone but those things sure looked like they were about to roll over half the time. And now I find myself yearning to hit the open water on a 30’ boat???

Anyway I really appreciate the advice and even if it seems to fall on deaf ears sometimes…..it just seems that way because I absorb information all the time. I am not really an expert at anything, but am very capable at most everything I try, I have no interest in trying dancing or singing or playing an instrument, so my statement will remain true!!

 

[Tonka Boater]

This is all good advice. I will add that joining forums like Club Sea Ray is an excellent source of knowledge in addition to putting your time in on the water. When you can't be on the boat it's very helpful to do exactly what you did here -- read and participate with other boaters.

The fact that you asked, shows that you're on the right track.

 

[Arizona Mike]

Take a Safe Boating Course with the USPS or Coast Guard Aux. I'm sure there are others.

I went with my Dad when he took a safe boating course when I was about 12. That was 50 years ago! Later in life when I bought my first boat I took a class with the local USPS. I continued with advanced classes and eventually became Commander of the local Squadron.

These classes don't give hands on instruction but they do give you good theory so when your on the water you have a clue on what to do and why. The Safety aspect is also good.

Eventually I wound up with a Blue Water Sail Boat and spent a couple years cruising Baja and the Mexican Mainland. This was before GPS and the Navigation skills I learned were invaluable.

I was with out a boat for about 20 yrs last fall we bought a Searay 270 Sundancer. I had never power boated before and the Admiral had never boated quite frankly the steering wheel and throttle intimidated me. I was fine with a tiller and main sheet I knew what I was doing. There is not Power Squadron in Tucson any more so I looked for info on line and talked to other boaters. They all said with the experience I had I would do fine. Yea Right you back that thing into the slip when its blowing more than 1 kt... There is some great info available for free and it sure helped me.

As I watch boaters at Roosevelt Lake in AZ where the boat is slipped, I am amazed that there are not more accidents. Most boaters don't seem to have a clue what a "wake" is & the rules of the road are "I'll speed up so this guy doesn't get in front of me". Boat brakes are slamming into reverse and giving it gas. (The admiral had never operated a boat so we went out in the middle with no one around, the first time she put the boat in reverse she pulled the lever all the way back. Since we were out and away from anything it was funny but it could have been a disaster.)

Bottom line, take the time and learn a bit before you go. you will look smarter than your are - easy for me cause I'm not that smart - and your boating buddies will appreciate it.

TML Tucson

 

[boatman37]

my experience, i was on boats when i was very young, maybe between 8-16 years old and had driven them a couple of times but no more than maybe 1 hour total. last year (at 46 years old) we decided to buy a boat. i wanted to start out around 20' or so due to inexperience but we ended up with a 25'er. it seemed enormous the first few times out but i am very safety conscientious and on the open water seemed no different than the 15'ers i was on when i was a kid. docking was a little different (and still is), but i take my time and go very slow when in the marina. i am far from an expert but i think i would be just as comfortable on a 30'er, although i may feel the wind effects a little more. bottom line, take your time and don't be afraid to ask for help. oh, and i took the USCG safety course last year before putting our boat in the water, even though it wasn't required for me

 

[dwna1a]

Every member here has said some great things including you in your original question. Myself I come from a boating family, but we built boats. Work boats mostly until the war, then battleships. My grandfather always said to me learn how to read the waters, the sky, and the wind. I never knew what he meant until I bought my current 30'. Winds, current, and weather play a big part in your boating experience.

There is a lot to learn when it comes to the water and the only one that knows it all is King Neptune. If I don't understand something on my local waters I have a great group of friends I ask. If I don't understand something about my boat I have a great family here in CSR. They and I are always willing to help.

Good ode luck and be safe. Go slow and soak it all in. Learn from your mistakes and be willing to change as you go. Never be afraid to ask.

 

[BillK2632]

First let me say, I am still learning after 40+ years of boating. I grew up boating on small / then larger lakes. I've had everything from a small skiff with a Merc 9.8 to a 290 Sundancer and now a small bowrider - and spent time on other's larger boats. I know very little about coastal / salt water boating but would love to get away from the lake at some point. And don't categorize me as a blowboater, but there was a time I was really into sailing - and that's probably where I learned the most about handling lines, knots and where I developed a keen sense of the wind and how it affects a boat. The basic principles of operating a boat are the same regardless of size, the equipment is different, bigger etc, but the boat basically handles the same. Humbleness is they key to becoming "experienced", I don't think you ever quit learning and when you think you know it all, you probably are headed for trouble. Don't be afraid to ask for help, don't be afraid to slow down, stop or do it over - everytime I have had a mishap, it was when I knew things were going wrong, but tried to push it for whatever reason. I think the fact that you are willing to even ask these questions shows some great character and the way people have responded shows what a great place this "club" is. I've learned a few painful lessons, when really all I had to do was ask.

 

[sandydlc]

So much of what I've learned over the years that I've been boating has just come down to common sense. In a previous life I co-owned a sailboat and quickly realized that I hated just sitting on the water not really going anywhere and feeling sick most of the time I was in the boat. When my husband and I decided to try out boating we started off with a 10' Porta-bote, then got an 18' Bayliner runabout. Within the next year we purchased our 30' Chaparral express cruiser after realizing that lake boating wasn't enough for us.

Every move we made from one boat to the next often revolved around safety of ourselves and our kids while on the water. When we realized that we wanted to explore more than an 18' open bow boat would allow, we moved up to the 30' and then when we could afford it this year, we moved to the 450. We take things slowly and try to discuss potential trips/routes with other experienced boaters in our yacht club. One of the worst trips we ever had was trying to boat up to Vancouver BC by just looking at the charts and heading North. We didn't realize that there is a much safer and easier way to get to Vancouver but we also learned to have a very healthy respect for big water and to do more research before attempting another big trip again.

We took an on-water training course with a licensed captain when we bought our Chaparral and if there is such a course in your area, I would highly recommend taking it. We covered a lot of safety procedures that have helped us in the years since we took the course. I agree with the other advice here - go slow, do your research and try to heed the advice of those with more hours on the water than you do.

You mention that your intention is to buy a Sea Ray 270 to take it to the Bahamas but my immediate reaction is that the boat won't have the fuel range to make the trip. Also, getting tossed around on open water in a 27' compared to a larger boat isn't all that fun. Would it make more sense to wait until you can afford an older 38' or 40' rather than to attempt such a trip on a 27'? Just a thought.

Best of luck to you and I hope that your boating adventures will always be safe and fun - in that order!

Sandy

 

[Gofirstclass]

I grew up on Lake Huron and had my first boat at age 5, a rowboat. That was almost 65 years ago Then at age 7 I got an old 7.5 hp motor for it. A few years later I got a Sailfish and that is when I really started to learn about reading the wind. I had that Sailfish for a few years and spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on it and got to be a pretty decent sailor. I took my first USPS course while I was in high school, around 1962.

Fast forward 20+ years and I bought my first power boat, a 20' bowrider. I'd already taken another safe boating course from the USCGA but realized it was just an intro course. I spent several years on that boat, with much of it studying the 'mechanics' of how the boat handled in the water, what effect the wind had and current had on it, etc.

In 2000 I bought a 330 Sundancer, took another USCGA boating course and proceeded to learn how that boat worked in the water. My slip was about a foot wider than the boat so it was a challenge to back it in, especially when the winds were blowing. I learned to back upwind, back downwind, docking in a cross wind, etc.

In 2010 I bought Beachcomber and took another USCGA course with my wife. This has been a HUGE learning curve for me because the boat handles so much differently in the winds and current.

Every time we go out the winds and current are different and it's always a bit of a challenge to get the boat to do what I want her to do. When backing into the slip I always try to do a "no touch landing" where I can get it all the way into the slip without touching the finger docks on the sides. That takes a good understanding of what the winds are doing, not only on the approach to the slip but also at and in the slip. The wind blows around the boats in slips next to me so I have to watch that and try to calculate what it's going to do to the boat.

Learning about boating only comes from lots of experience. You can't just read about it then do it. It takes years to become what I consider a competent skipper. But hey, look at the fun you're going to have along the way.

 

[Shorty]

I am 48 and have been around boats from age 1. That being said I have a 240 SunDancer now and still learn every day we go out. one bit of advice is to always have a plan for whatever could happen. I tell whoever is on board that trip what I expect from them whether it is another boat in distress or problem with ours. There is a lot of you tube videos to watch about boat handling. I still watch some and then use it to help me do better.

Also it helps to make sure your Wife or Girl friend can operate your boat. My wife can handle our boat better than me sometimes when it comes to putting it back on the trailer or docking.

BTW this is my 1st post here.