I'm against mandatory boater education

[Presentation]

I have been studying this issue quite a bit.

There are states that now require boater education. Wisconsin requires passing a boater education class for younger boaters.

I have taken the course. I did learn from the course. I’ve also learned quite a bit from about 500 hours of skippering boats in various situations and conditions. I’m sure many here have more marine education and experience then that. I also read about boating and safety often.

If you did not already know it, in preparation of mandatory boating education, the exam has been made easier then it was years ago. The test is now so easy, so simple that people inadequately prepared to skipper a vessel could easily pass the test.

Also many,…..no, not many, MOST of the questions are no longer related to operating a boat in a safe manor.

Example’s from the actual current exam:
#1) A boat's hull identification number (HIN) is:
permanently affixed to the transom
on the starboard side of the transom above the waterline
a serial number exclusive to your boat
all of the above

How would getting this answer correct translate to a safer skipper?


#2) Most small boats are powered by:
inboard engines
outboard engines
inboard/outboard engines
jet drives

How would getting this answer correct translate to a safer skipper?

#3) You measure the length overall (LOA) of a boat:
from stem to stern along the side
from front to back over the top
along the centerline from the outside of the hull aft to the outside of the hull forward
from back to front where the water touches

How would getting this answer correct translate to a safer skipper?

#4) Jet drives are usually found on:
luxury yachts
PWCs
houseboats
displacement vessels

How would getting this answer correct translate to a safer skipper?

And talk about your ‘DUMB’ questions:
Examples
#5) Something on the starboard side is:
on the side with the star
on top of the boat
on the bottom of the boat
on the right side looking forward

#6) Water skiers can communicate with the tow boat by:
cellular phone
hand signals
CB radio
walkie talkie

These are all CURRENT questions on the exam. The exam is 50 questions and the above 6 are a reasonable representation on just how easy and non-safety related the questions have become in the latest revision.

I don’t think my stance on this issue is going to be popular. Those that want and don’t want mandatory boater education will likely be against me.

To me, if we are going to require passing a boater education test we may as well make it do some good. If the test was better I think I would support it.


Well, that’s my stance.

 

[Four Suns]

What's the right answer to #6?

 

[Presentation]

What's the right answer to #6?

What you do is you have another skier behind another boat. You pull the two next to each other. They talk and then the second boat accelerates so the second skier is next to the first boat then that person tells the skipper. :smt043

 

[RiverRat]

I guess you could say all of the above if your a good enough skier!!! :grin: :lol:

 

[Charlie L]

The answer is Nextel walkie talkie of course :grin:

 

[Fynder]

nmr

 

[Escapade]

Doug-
Last night ( On the Milwaukee River ) We watched as a woman took about 5 minutes to put on a life jacket. Next the Captain powered out of the slip at 1/3 throttle never looking for other trafic.

I could see a dealer throwing in a DVD on the test to a guy like this.

Ohh I confess we spend a few hours each weekend watching the docking circus....

 

[pjnr56]

Not to be confrontational Escapade but...your comment on "watching the docking circus" is something I have a problem with. As a brand new boater I am by far and away inept at docking. It is intimidating enough to try and back into a slip with little clearance and other boats all around...and even worse when you have an audience who is there to criticize, laugh, or otherwise make a new boater feel pressured. Maybe providing assistance, grabbing a line, or offering to help the next time a fellow boater has a difficult time would be better, and it certainly would make for a quick friendship!

I apologize if I am not supposed to voice these types of opinions on this board.

 

[kev88]

The test is mandatory in Alabama. I was actually a boater for several years prior to taking the test. The questions were quite tougher than the ones above, If I had not studied the prep. book I wouldn't have passed.

Many bouy/marker, right of way, emergency situation type questions, etc.

All for it here in Alabama!

Kevin

 

[waterlogged]

Mandatory in NH as well, being phased in by age. I'm in the Power Squadron, so we offer the class / test. In NH the test must be proctored. Some of the questions are pretty basic but we try to focus on things like safe passage (150' rule here), navigation, safety, etc.

Like kev88, I'm all for it too :thumbsup:

 

[osd9]

NJ recently inacted mandatory testing for all boaters. I agree that the course and the test does not adequately prepare a boater to go out on the open water of a holiday weekend. But, neither does the DMV Driving exam/road test adequately prepare a 16 year old (or an 85 year old who may have taken the test 65 years ago) to drive on the NJ Turnpike at rush hour.

However, what the course/test does do, is at least make everyone aware that there ARE, in fact, rules and regulations which govern safe boating. It is then upto the individual to pursue those other sources, which are talked about in the class, and expand on their own knowledge.

The rules of the road are all ready in place. What we need is enforcement.

 

[Sea Gull]

I am against most things mandatory and share the frustration with state required boating safety courses. In Connecticut we also have a mandatory test which is less than adequate to prepare new boaters for the complexities than can occur on the water. I have spent a good part of my life teaching sailing and boating while taking opportunities to further educate myself and boater education is very important to me. I wish there were more good programs around to teach prospective boaters what they need to know.

Maybe it’s good marketing on the part of boat manufacturers, but somehow the general population has the idea that owning a boat is easy and fun. We have not done a good job of also showing the work and cost of maintaining a boat or the dangers involved in careless and improper use. It is amazing to me that people will buy a boat with no prior experience and think nothing of it. How many people would go swimming without first taking a swimming lesson? How many people would install natural gas pipes in their own house instead of having a professional do it? Maybe the answer is too many, but you get my point.

I think the boating industry could look at SCUBA diving as an example. Every dive shop is in the business of selling dive gear. They start by making learn to dive courses available in lots of locations and at a reasonable price. The lessons include classroom and in water training – taught by certified instructors – and culminating in an internationally recognized certification. Once certified, these new divers become customers of the dive shop, buying equipment and going on dive trips. The more newbies the shop trains, the larger their business gets.

Imagine the boat dealer giving free lessons by licensed captains under the auspices of US Sailing or US Powerboating (or Power Squadron or USCGA if they would add on-water modules). Make it fun and easy to learn by spending 20-30 hours on the water at a reasonable price. They could event offer a “discount†on a new or used boat upon completion of the course. This would be much better than any state mandated system. At least in my dreams.

 

[chazaroo]

What's the right answer to #6?

Damn! Got it wrong. I was sure it was Semaphore Flags.

Chazaroo

 

[Turtlesboat]

I am against most things mandatory and share the frustration with state required boating safety courses. In Connecticut we also have a mandatory test which is less than adequate to prepare new boaters for the complexities than can occur on the water. I have spent a good part of my life teaching sailing and boating while taking opportunities to further educate myself and boater education is very important to me. I wish there were more good programs around to teach prospective boaters what they need to know.

Maybe it’s good marketing on the part of boat manufacturers, but somehow the general population has the idea that owning a boat is easy and fun. We have not done a good job of also showing the work and cost of maintaining a boat or the dangers involved in careless and improper use. It is amazing to me that people will buy a boat with no prior experience and think nothing of it. How many people would go swimming without first taking a swimming lesson? How many people would install natural gas pipes in their own house instead of having a professional do it? Maybe the answer is too many, but you get my point.

I think the boating industry could look at SCUBA diving as an example. Every dive shop is in the business of selling dive gear. They start by making learn to dive courses available in lots of locations and at a reasonable price. The lessons include classroom and in water training – taught by certified instructors – and culminating in an internationally recognized certification. Once certified, these new divers become customers of the dive shop, buying equipment and going on dive trips. The more newbies the shop trains, the larger their business gets.

Imagine the boat dealer giving free lessons by licensed captains under the auspices of US Sailing or US Powerboating (or Power Squadron or USCGA if they would add on-water modules). Make it fun and easy to learn by spending 20-30 hours on the water at a reasonable price. They could event offer a “discount†on a new or used boat upon completion of the course. This would be much better than any state mandated system. At least in my dreams.

I completely agree with this approach. In the dive community, this works great. It's a win win situation for all parties.

 

[Presentation]

Sea Gull,

My wife and I are both PADI certified divers.

I like your analogy. You said what I was trying to convey. Thank you.

 

[comsnark]

"The rules of the road are all ready in place. What we need is enforcement."

No. Enforcement is not what we need.
Common sense is what is needed. Far too little of that around.

I have been boating in NJ for 25 years, and have seen the ramp up in enforcement since 911. These guys are relatively clueless. . and do nothing to make me feel safer. They are only there to bust you if you have a little too much fun. I have also seen no wake bouys starting to multiply. In Silver Bay (in Barnagate bay) there are three new ones this year. . two of which in my mind seem to only serve as a navigation hazard when operating at night. (I am out often at night -> Thank goodness for GPS to log these menaces!)

I feel safe in my part of NJ because it is a residential area, and all the boaters are locals who know the score. Even the teenaged jetskiers are running their own equipment. They have no interest in being killed. It is common to see a Dad putting a 5 year olds in front of them to get the feel of the water on the ski. The local Jetsky crowd hardly ever buzzes the big boats, even when wake jumping. (I both run a boat and run jetskis!) I have even seen teenagers with helmets in my area (those skis are so fast. . .I think they need them!!)

I am often in PA. . and see what the lakes look like on the weekend. Total chaos! Also. . .heavy inforcement. I see what is happening on the boat ramps. It is crazy there! And I do not feel safe. Why? Because all these people are running cheap equipment for three times per year.

I took the NJ mandatory course. Waste of time. . .but useful if starting out. I wish the other half was there. . because sometimes she won't listen to me (just because!) but would probably listen to an instructor.

 

[BSenzina]

The ONLT purpose of the mandatory testing (in FL) is to give operators the VERY BASIC knowledge of what is going on around them. :smt021 If they pass this, they know, or should know, what the various bouys mean, which way channel marked read and other very basic safety information. In FLorida, anyone under the age of 22 is required to pass the boaters safety course to operate anyting with over a 10 hp motor. Getting actual hands on seamanship skills is up to the individual skipper. :smt021
It would be nice if this teaching was available at a reasonable price, but i have not heard of it. :huh:

Operators MUST take responsibility for their own actions. NOT KNOWING is no excuse. It is their responsibility to know. Either they get this information ontheir own, or "enforcement" will educate them. A boater who is having "too much fun" sounds like someone who may be unsafe. Its not like the info is hard to come by. I think dealers, and private parties whisell their boats should be required to have the minimum required safety equipment on board at the time of sale.

 

[osd9]

Comsnark:

Don't confuse "Over zealous post 911 security checks" with "enforcing the Rules of the Road".

I also have been boating on the Barnegat Bay for many years.......since 1972 (sophmore year in high school)......Living on the Bay (Lagoons anyway) since 1985. I have seen a steady decline of common sense and curtousey out on the bay. ESPECIALLY since the onset of PWCs. I'm not bashing them (heck I used to own two back in 92-96).....Just some of the idiots who own/operate them.

Just go off of Water's Edge (a busy bayfront restaurant/bar for you non-locals) late on a busy Saturday or Sunday afternoon and watch.....

Or go to Tice's and see how many Jetski's are plowing through the anchorage while folks are walking on their bows to set/retrieve their anchor.......or standing on their platforms BBQing.......or swimming off the back of their sterns.......or, and I actully saw this last weekend, pulling tubes through the anchored boats......

We must be on different Barnegat Bay, because I don't see the same courtesy you talked about.....my house is on the main lagoon to my development.......every weekend, and I mean EVERY weekend, some idiot jerk on a jetski goes by my house on plane....usually later in the afternoon on the way back home.......but I'll bet when they get to their own lagoon, and daddy can see them, they go nice an slow......

 

[AndersonAcres]

There are idiots everywhere. Common sense was always more prevalent in 'the good old days' and in short supply 'today'.

Training, even rudimentary, and testing, even insufficient, is better than nothing.

As was pointed out earlier, training in driving a car doesn't prepare folks for what's really needed to drive the NJ Turnpike. But it helps.

Likewise boater safety training is better than nothing.

IMHO.

 

[comsnark]

Just go off of Water's Edge (a busy bayfront restaurant/bar for you non-locals) late on a busy Saturday or Sunday afternoon and watch.....

Or go to Tice's and see how many Jetski's are plowing through the anchorage while folks are walking on their bows to set/retrieve their anchor.......or standing on their platforms BBQing.......or swimming off the back of their sterns.......or, and I actully saw this last weekend, pulling tubes through the anchored boats......

We must be on different Barnegat Bay, because I don't see the same courtesy you talked about.....my house is on the main lagoon to my development.......every weekend, and I mean EVERY weekend, some idiot jerk on a jetski goes by my house on plane....usually later in the afternoon on the way back home.......but I'll bet when they get to their own lagoon, and daddy can see them, they go nice an slow......

Well. . .Tice's shoal (a bay achorage area seperated from a major Ocean Beach by 150' of sand) is another story, I agree. I have been there twice. . .once by car, once by boat. The scene there is too crazy for me to want to participate. . . I believe what you say about that place! I just don't see the attraction. The beach is far more accessible by car. And safely anchoring requires a rather long walk in the water to get to the beach!

Near water's edge, I have done ok. Aside from congestion from lot's of boats moving north/south, it never seems that crazy to me, but I admit that I tend to show up an hour before sunset, and leave after dark.

I definately have not seen the looniness you describe with jetskis in the Lagoons in my area! The worst I see is a few muscle boats that rev engines at the dock early in the day.