Ignorance - Help

Celticknot

Celticknot

New Member
Aug 13, 2011
95
Lake Erie
Boat Info
05- 290 AJ
V-drives - Genset
Engines
350 mags
Currently looking at a new purchase - Really like the boat (2003-35 Tiara Open), What scares me are the Cat 3126 engines. - I don't know anything about diesels at all. 414 hours - Should I be "afraid" of these? What should I be asking about or need to know about these engines. - If we move forward will certainly have a CAT tech survey. Admrial loved the boat - Thats good!

Looking for help - Thanks in advance. Ignorance of diesels makes me very nervous...:huh:
 
When I bought my boat which has 750 hour 3116 cats, which are very similar engines, there was certinanly a lot of bad press about cat engines from the mid to late 90s. However, I think that all of those issues have been worked out. There are certainly thousands of Cat powered boat owners out there that are very happy with the reliability, performance and fuel economy of the cats. I am extremely happy with my boat and the engines, and i believe if properly operated, maintained and serviced (using ONLY Cat oils, coolants and filters) that the engines will last a very long time. In commercail daily use these engines routinely go 6000 to 10000 hours before needing an overhaul. So I would say that if your survey is good, the maintance has been done properly and the engine operates and has been operated as per the operators manual (Cruise at 2400 rpm, Max RPM 2800, not overpropped etc) you should not fear the 3126.

But then, free advise is only worth what you paid for it! LOL.

Good luck,

Peter
 
I wouldn't be scared get all the service records you can and get CAT to do the engine survey.I currently have 819 hours on 3126 and they are running like cats.
 
My thoughts are similar -


  • request all maintenance records
  • verify that you have a 'matching pair' - i.e. that one engine hasn't been replaced already (serial numbers match delivery docs, etc.)
  • look for 'symmetry' - i.e. turbos are discolored similarly from side to side. Oil levels and opaqueness similar side to side. Coolant level and condition similar side to side. Belt wear, etc., etc., etc.
  • trace maintenance records to the latest service advisor and/or mechanic and talk to them face to face if possible about your boat. Tell them you are trying to verify that the service history matches the story about these engines and the boat.


Trust...but verify. Then relax because the 3126 is far more stout and dependable than any gasser you've ever owned.
 
Not having had the opportunity to reasearch yet - Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of the yearly maint. Oil Changes $$?
The current owner runs a construction Co said he has done all his own maintance? Boat has been sitting on the hard for 2 years - Does the fuel to be polished?
 
Celticknot said:
Not having had the opportunity to reasearch yet - Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of the yearly maint. Oil Changes $$?
The current owner runs a construction Co said he has done all his own maintance? Boat has been sitting on the hard for 2 years - Does the fuel to be polished?
Click to expand...


That means the boat probably got oil changes. (Q: How often, what oil and filters were used?) I doubt that in those hours that much else happened, nor would it need to if everything was going as planned for low hour engines.

Fuel could be fine, or the fuel could be full of algae. No way to tell without a runup. (Better two year old diesel, than two year old gasoline, IMO) Get a bright flashlight, crawl into the bilge, and shine it on the RACORs. If they are bright and translucent, pink and clear looking, well, you might be okay. If they are full of black muck at the bottom, stringy stuff floating around, well you could be in for some work to clean up tanks. Even if algae is blooming in the tanks, if the boat hasn't been run in two seasons, it won't yet be apparent at the RACORs.

Good reason NOT to buy this boat without a seatrial of at least 4-6hrs duration.

If you are reasonably mechanically inclined and intend to put on big miles season one, I would do your own 'polishing' by implementing a rigorous fuel treatment and filter changing regimen year one, thus scrubbing your tanks and systems with diesel fuel treatment, biocides, and removing contaminants with frequent filter changes. If you spend more time in the slip or on a sand bar than on plane, or don't want to deal with maintenance, then paying someone else to 'polish' your fuel could be helpful.

Oil changes at a marina or dealership for twin 3126 run ~$600 annually ($300/side) including disposal fees and new oil filters. If you put on ~100hrs per year, I'd estimate your annual average maintenance costs at $1500 if you paid someone else to do all your maintenance - including oil and filters, fuel system including cost of filters, impellor replacement, zinc replacement, belts replacement, after cooler cleaning, etc. as needed.

The more of these taskS that you can tackle yourself, the smaller that $1500 annual 'fluids and filters' budget will be, as labor is about 2/3 of that estimated cost.

At CAT specified intervals in the factory manuals you'll have other periodic adjustments (racking injectors, injection timing adjustments, etc.) and inspections to do - someone else that has paid CAT to do these can chime in, they aren't that frequent, but they are that cheap.

Knowledge is power...why did the boat sit for two seasons?





 
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Owner - Bought a new 36 Open has had this for sale since then but IMO was asking way too much $$, Has lowered the price to where it is in the "competitive" range...
 
Four hundred hours on Cat engines is nothing. I had 1100 on my boat when I bought it, about 1250 now. Before I bought my boat I did some research with Cat and was told by a very experienced Cat mechanic that the same engine (3406C's) in a truck would be expected to go nearly a million miles before a major overhaul would be needed. He said my engines, with 1100 hours would be like 11000 miles on a new engine....not even broken in.

I change my oil ever 2 years and use 15 gallons between the engines and genset. Filters I buy online for a fraction of what Cat wants, same with impellers. We also change our own impellers to save on labor costs.
 
For me, these engines cost about half to maintain compared to the Gas boat I had before.
 
Check out boatdiesel.com it will be very informative about all things disesel.
 
If I recall correctly, CAT recommends that the valve clearances be reset at 350 hours. Verify that this has been completed. At this age, you should also ensure that the coolant has been flushed and replaced. If it's original, it's overdue. The rest (at least for me) was oil changes, air filter maintenance, and RACOR changes.

Other then that, I will allow the great Frank W to respond specifically to anything else CAT related.

From my Amberjack experience, which had 3126's, they ran great. Fired up with ease, ran smoke free with proper and vigilant tank treatment and maintenance.

Oil changes are the same as the gassers, just a whole lot more oil to remove and add. The reverso oil pump makes this easier. It's just bigger dollars as you are buying oil in gallon containers (or 5 gallon buckets) vs. quarts. Oil filters are also bigger as are the fuel filters.

Impellers are also just bigger (and therefore more expensive) then the gassers. Check access to the port side engine's water pump as (at least on my AJ), getting to it to change the impeller involved laying on the engine and lost skin on the knuckles while trying to insert the new one.

CAT service in western Lake Erie comes out of the Perrysburg office near Toledo. They charge portal to portal including the truck, mileage etc. This is NOT cheap. There are other local diesel service companies who are also well regarded. Personally, I stay with CAT. They have a mechanic who is VERY good. He works on many of the CAT's in this area of Lake Erie. I ask for him by name when service is needed that is above my skillset. He is clean, meticulous and very knowledgeable. It's just again, NOT cheap when you need him, but he does bring piece of mind when he is done.

For the purpose of purchasing, ask specifically about the first two items above as they again aren't cheap. Not crazy costly, but should already be done with 400 hours and if not should be part of the purchase negotiations. The rest (annual maintenance and upkeep) just depends on how comfortable you are in the ER. Hope this helps.
 
LE Boater - Would you send me a PM with the mechanic's name. Would like to find out what the cost would be for an engine survey.Thanks
 
Thanks to all for the responses - Ignorance again - Are there different "grades" or octanes of diesel fuel on the lake?
 
There might be winter grades of diesel in your area, but diesel is diesel, so just look for red-dyed fuel, which is about all you can find on the water. The dye is added to fuel that can be sold without highway taxes and is cheaper.

A thorough Cat survey that includes a blow-by test should take about 8 hours on the boat. The cost should be between $800 and $1200, plus travel time and expenses and that is variable and depends upon how far you are from the technicians home base.
 
I am a doctor and I do all my own maintenance on my boat. It is not hard, just bigger parts and more fluids.
I do yearly oil and filter changes, yearly fuel filter changes, Just recently did the antifreeze in both engines, Changed the transmission and generator oil, do all hoses and belts as well. I have also done the descaling of the raw water cooling system and the air conditioner cooling lines, changed impellers and pulled and cleaned the aftercoolers. Have replaced both alternators and do the zincs as needed.
Off all the above listed items, the only one I would think twice about doing again is the port engine impeller, it was a beach to get to. Luckily that's an every 3 year job
So if I as a physician can do all of the above, so can you and you will save a lot of money. In addition you will have a much better understanding of how your mechanicals work and be able to do some quick troubleshooting and on site repair should trouble arise.
When I changed the antifreeze, Frank told me I really needed to use the CAT brand ELC antifreeze. It was $11 a gallon at the CAT store, cheaper than Walmart generic. And it has a 6 year life expectancy.
 
diesels are much easier to maintain than gas engines IMO. I didn't now the first thing about them 3 years ago, now I do all but the complex stuff like setting the fuel rack. Once you get how they work, then it's pretty easy. I have the CAT technical service training videos for 3116 and 3126 engines on VHS for sale if anyone wants to buy them.
 
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