If you have ever bought a boat you are the sucker that paid the most.

[MonacoMike]

I saw a revival of an old thread discussing the pitfalls and benefits of buying a repo boat. If you have ever bought a boat you were the sucker that paid the most. That goes for me too. The only exceptions are any transaction not available on the open market.

Market value is what a willing seller and a ready, willing, and able buyer (RWA) agree to trade items of value, usually cash. In my case 2 "buyers" offered more than I but couldn't get financing. They fail to be real buyers and I ended up being the sucker that offered the most that really could buy. Just because I was the sucker that paid the most doesn't mean I'm not pleased with my purchase. Rather I'm trying to make a point.

I have read several posts announcing "I got a steal on a repo, it's worth X and I got it for way less than X". If this boat was exposed on the open market you paid more than any other RWA buyer in the market at that time. You were the sucker willing to pay the most at that time. You were also willing to take the risk associated with repo boats and that is hard to put a value on. The invisible hand of the market knows and that is why repo's sell for less than maintained vessels.

I know already this thread will get several " I made big money on my repo ". When all you actually did was beat the odds. There always have to be a few winners to entice more players into the game.

MM

 

[OldSkool]

I buy my boats at the right time of the season and get them in good condition and at decent market value. Picked up Old Skool in Wi. at the end of summer from a guy who was getting ready to pay storage on it again for the winter.

Sea tested it for 2 days before we brought it home. Not to say that buying a repo is not a good idea but the sea trial was well worth the money I may have saved by buying as is.

IMHO.

 

[MonacoMike]

I buy my boats at the right time of the season and get them in good condition and at decent market value. Picked up Old Skool in Wi. at the end of summer from a guy who was getting ready to pay storage on it again for the winter.

Sea tested it for 2 days before we brought it home. Not to say that buying a repo is not a good idea but the sea trial was well worth the money I may have saved by buying as is.

IMHO.

All the variables you noted have values of their own.

MM

 

[OldSkool]

MM, you are correct and I would never say that I wouldn't buy a repo. Pricing is always relative to the current market as you stated. Many bought houses in 2007 thinking they got a good deal only to see the market fall and there investment plummet.

 

[Quint4]

The money I spend on boating is some of the best use of my funds I can think of. I exercise due dilligence with all my larger purchases and move on with life...it's short you know.
I do not feel like a sucker....not even a little bit.

 

[MonacoMike]

The money I spend on boating is some of the best use of my funds I can think of. I exercise due dilligence with all my larger purchases and move on with life...it's short you know.
I do not feel like a sucker....not even a little bit.

Nor do I. In an open market both buyer and seller should feel they obtained what they wanted to further their needs. The main thing I wanted to say was if one bought a repo it is not some "deal" superior to what others may have gotten in their purchase. They just paid market value.

MM

 

[KayKook]

Nor do I. In an open market both buyer and seller should feel they obtained what they wanted to further their needs. The main thing I wanted to say was if one bought a repo it is not some "deal" superior to what others may have gotten in their purchase. They just paid market value.

MM

But on a direct comparison to the same two boats, if both boats were in equal condition, the buyer that paid less with a repo than the "sucker" that paid more for the same boat that was not a repo, got a "deal".

 

[HUMPH]

It all comes down to the condition of the boat doesn't it? My 320 was a repo and it was in very good condition. Just because someone couldn't make their payments any longer doesn't mean they trashed their boat. There are many, many cases where they are trashed. There is a 2005 550DA next to the 410DA we are buying and it makes me want to puke when I see it. Such a wonderful boat but it will probably take at least $100K - $150K to get it back into shape unless the MAN diesels are completely trashed!

 

[Presentation]

MM,

You could make this exact same argument about the spouse you married.

 

[barefoot1999]

It depends on your definition of a "sucker". As OldSkool said, those who purchased houses in 2007 felt they got a good deal only to see prices plummet. Those who purchased houses, boats, and cars in 2008-2009 probably got much more for their money. Was I a sucker for purchasing a last year's model (2008) in mid-2009? I felt I got an incredible deal. I already had a paid for boat that ran perfectly well, did I need a new boat? Of course not. Home buyers and car buyers probably would classify me as a sucker. I bet Quint would classify me as money well spent. It's all what you want when you want it. It really doesn't matter if it was a great deal or not. If it was right for you at the time, then enjoy the ride!

 

[KayKook]

Possibly, but more often than not, the repo boat is distressed

Broad, uninformed, generalization. Scott, tell us all how many Repo boats you have personally looked at and considered for yourself. That way we all can understand your comment.

 

[MonacoMike]

But on a direct comparison to the same two boats, if both boats were in equal condition, the buyer that paid less with a repo than the "sucker" that paid more for the same boat that was not a repo, got a "deal".

Thank you for playing right to my point. You are saying what has often been implied on this forum ( "form" for some) many times. So the people that purchase non repo boats are suckers and wasted money. The market is made up of many individuals making separate decisions and the collective wisdom of the market is repo's are not worth as much. The reason the repo is sold at a lower price is the buyer made the highest offer.

MM

 

[KayKook]

Thanks Scott. That makes more sense that what Monaco Mike said. :wink:

 

[Gofirstclass]

I think it all goes to the condition of the boat as to whether or not you ended up being a sucker.

I bought my boat from a broker in MI who had bought it as a repo from the bank that held the title. The prior owner spared no expense in maintaining the boat (this info came from the local CAT dealer who maintained the engines) and the boat was in excellent shape.

Before buying it I did my due diligence which included two separate sea trials, two surveys, finding prices on comp boats on YachtWorld (YW), getting all the info on the boat from Sea Ray and on the engines from CAT.

Here's how the numbers worked out....
After negotiating the price of the boat, paying $20K to ship it to the west coast, paying $6K to ship mine back east and $50K to have equipment installed in Portland, I still figure I came out about $100K-$125K below what similar boats were priced at on YW.

Now I know that nobody pays what the asking price on YW is, but even given the usual discounted selling prices I figure I still came out ahead, and my boat is in excellent condition and has low hours.

 

[HUMPH]

We are just suckers who are happy to boat. I can live with that, as there are many less desirable ways to throw your money away that are not nearly as rewarding.

Like my freaking time share! :smt021

 

[MonacoMike]

I think it all goes to the condition of the boat as to whether or not you ended up being a sucker.

I bought my boat from a broker in MI who had bought it as a repo from the bank that held the title. The prior owner spared no expense in maintaining the boat (this info came from the local CAT dealer who maintained the engines) and the boat was in excellent shape.

Before buying it I did my due diligence which included two separate sea trials, two surveys, finding prices on comp boats on YachtWorld (YW), getting all the info on the boat from Sea Ray and on the engines from CAT.

Here's how the numbers worked out....
After negotiating the price of the boat, paying $20K to ship it to the west coast, paying $6K to ship mine back east and $50K to have equipment installed in Portland, I still figure I came out about $100K-$125K below what similar boats were priced at on YW.

Now I know that nobody pays what the asking price on YW is, but even given the usual discounted selling prices I figure I still came out ahead, and my boat is in excellent condition and has low hours.

This is precisely the thinking I am pointing out. You bought your boat for market value. If your dealer could have sold it to another buyer, wouldn't they? So you were the highest bidder. I'm glad you are pleased with your numbers but you were still the highest bidder.

When banks sell repo's they have a legal obligation to get the most out of any asset they sell for the shareholders and the original borrower. When an asset is repo'd the borrower owes the loan amount, late fees, interest, legal fees, and the cost of repossession to the lender. If the asset fails to sell for enough to cover these costs the bank can file for a deficiency judgment against he borrower if they feel they may be able to collect. Therefore they must sell to the highest bidder in a reasonable amount of time.

In your case no one thought the boat was worth more than the dealer and when the dealer offered it for sale again no one thought it was worth more than you.

YW prices could be anything from fair to outrageous. You paid market value.

MM

 

[Two Peas]

The term "sucker" has an implied meaning of "fool", "dupe", or "loser".

In the OP, you could easily replace that term with "consumer", "happy purchaser", or "new owner".

Paying more than someone else doesn't necessarily mean one has made a poor decision. It usually indicates that the payor decided the amount to be paid to the payee was worth the goods received in the exchange.

This is how our entire free-market system is based. Or supposed to be...

And, because of this, it makes this entire discussion rather pointless...

Caveat emptor, and don't look back. Enjoy your damn boat.

 

[skolbe]

Like my freaking time share! :smt021

I have bought 2 "Repo" timeshares -

My father in law bought a bank owned Skipperliner Houseboat. The original owner took immaculate care of it the second owner - didn't take the best care of things - but also didn't take it out. A few of the spark plugs were not the right spark plugs so it was idling poorly - the oil was dark - but the second owner barely ran it. After reconditioning some items and repainting the steel - hull - it is a nice boat if that is your thing and he bought for half the value of what you would expect the boat to sell for.

I think that it is hard for people to get pass the dirt and filth that is often found on distressed boats in my area - meaning owners that are desperate and/or bank owned boats.

I watched a 330 Crownline basically just sit for 3 years until someone finally bought it. It looked terrible after sitting that long - up to that point it was a well maintained boat. With some TLC and canvas repair - someone got a nice boat.

I watched a 290 Sea Ray Open Bow go back to the bank where they had overheated it at least 5 times - they hit a rock dike and ripped out the bottom - according to the water patrol 27' of the 29' was ripped up and the owner patched the hull back together and painted the bottom white - instead of gelcoating, then they lost the keys so they pried the head door open. This boat wouldn't be high on the list but in a survey and with a mechanic - you should be able to uncover it's issues.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Whenever I start feeling like a "sucker", I just think about the enjoyment a boating lifestyle has brought to our lives. Yes, you can always find someone who has found a sweeter deal but a wise friend once told me that "comparison is the spoiler of contentment".

I think he's right on!

 

[Bridog]

I think money is nasty and disgusting so I will always buy new boats. You can't get that "new boat smell" for nothing.