Hrs effect on value

M

majmacv

New Member
Jun 3, 2009
28
Sacramento, CA
Boat Info
2001 410 DA
Engines
8.1 Horizon x 2 (V DR)
I'm about to list an 07 280 DA, and I’m wondering how tofactor for the unusually high Hours (780) for its year group. It seems that every 07 I look at for a comphas 80 or less hours, which amazes me (fcs, I can do that in 3 months!). Isthere a chart or reference I can use to assses value declination inrelation to Hrs.? I apparently have thehighest hr. 280 in the nation….
 
When we started boating we got a 28 footer with upper and lower helms. In the 5 years we had it we put on 600 hours. Was told that was about correct 100 hours per year. We now put on 200 to 300 a year on our 38 footer. I feel it is not the hours but how they were put on 700 hours at 4800 RPM is a lot more wear than 700 hours at 1200RPM. A good mechanic should be able to help you determine the engine condition.
 
The best boat is one that is run and maintained. Over the 6 boats I owned, the more I used them, the less in problems. But maintenance is the key which I am very anal on. If you want to eliminate the questions that it might cause, have oil engine analysis performed and documented from a good lab like

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/order-now.php
 
My 07 has 315 hours on it. 80 hours is too few on a 07.
 
northern said:
When we started boating we got a 28 footer with upper and lower helms. In the 5 years we had it we put on 600 hours. Was told that was about correct 100 hours per year. We now put on 200 to 300 a year on our 38 footer. I feel it is not the hours but how they were put on 700 hours at 4800 RPM is a lot more wear than 700 hours at 1200RPM. A good mechanic should be able to help you determine the engine condition.
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hmmmmmmm - I disagree - 700 hours at 1200 RPM is just as bad as 700 hours at 4800 RPM. Engines are not happy at close to idle - and not happy at max power. The best thing to do is have a varied usage engine profile with majority of hours in the Cruise range. If the engine gets the same RPM's all the time - all the parts "settle" for that RPM. So that is why you should also have a varied RPM profile for Cruise. (One day 3100 RPM - next day 3300 RPM and so on)

My "new to me" 310DA has 90% of engine hours <1500 RPM - and I'm preparing a "gentle" run in to make certain that I slowly get the engine used to higher average RPMs. But that plan covers 30-40 run hours with quite a lot of fuel conditioner.
 
Hours depend a lot on where the boat is used. We are on our boat every weekend 10 months out of the year but we are on a lake so long distance cruising is not an option. Most trips are a 20 minute cruise, drop anchor and hang, cruise back. We are averaging 70 hours a year which is a lot compared to my dockmates. I could see our usage number easily doubling if we were at the coast and had the opportunity to cruise and explore new places. I would not be out off by a well maintained 5 year old boat with 700 plus hours but I would want clear proof that it was well cared for. Have the maintenance records available and summarized on a spreadsheet or other log. Make sure every system is in good working order so there are no surprises during the survey.
 
Regardless, if you are much more than average a buyer will expect some price adjustment (right or wrong) that is the way people think.
 
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Agree 100% Most people looking at his size boat are probably newer to boating and equate hours to mileage. This mindset is engrained in people's head and is hard to get away from. I think boat dealers are as much to blame as anyone for this. I'm searching for a boat as we speak and the few i've gone as far to call the dealer/broker about the first thing out of there mouth is "this boat is cherry with Low hours"... Once I tell them I'd rather have a 7-10 year old boat with 500 hours over one with <200 hours they all pause a minute and rethink their strategy.



tbirdvet said:
Regardless if you are much more than average a buyer will expect some price adjustment (right or wrong) that is the way people think.
Click to expand...
 
When someone talks about old engines with low hours, I'm always quick to say, "so they've sat around rusting..."

There's a boat for sale on my dock right now. It's 7 years old, with 80 hours, and that's considered a selling point. In reality, everything on the boat that DOESN'T benefit from regular use, is used every wkd!
 
We purchased our boat last year to see if we wanted or were able to use and maintain a boat of this size (older f_rts) before moving up in size if it works out if it doesn't I'll sell it at a loss if needed and chock it up to a learning experience. We purchased it from the Sea Ray dealer that sold it originally in 1999 it had 384 hours with complete service records. The boat was well maintained and serviced regularly even when it wasn't used much due to illness. We now have over 780 hours on it haven't looked at gauge for a while with all service records even receipts for work I have done. A boat is meant to be used not sit things like bellows get brittle fuel systems gum up etc without use. We do both cruise and idle for salmon fishing our boat now runs better than the day we bought it (knock on wood) I wouldn't hesitate to buy a boat with high hours over a boat with lows and poor service GET an oil analysis with a complete engine and hull survey. I still have boxes of upgrades in the garage that sit unopened I'd rather be on the water than at the marina installing them for now leaving in a couple hours for a couple days of fishing and crabbing.
 
My 2005 has 470 hours on it. I bought it two years ago in the low 200's. I use mine every weekend and we have open water so hours on the motors is part of our routine. I agree thoguh that many people won't even call on a boat with high hours regardless of it's history or how it was taken care of.
 
I've seen five year old boats with 100 hours that were trashed, both mechanically and cosmetically with zero documentation on service and most likely had the original drive oil and the drive was never removed. Not to mention ripped/split seats, camper canvas destroyed, deep scratches all over etc.

Also have seen some 10 year old boats with 1000 hours that were immaculate, impellers changed every season, drives pulled, alignment checked all service records, perfect upholstery, nice gelcoat etc.

I wouldnt be scared of hours, I put 150 or so on a year and this '07 260 I recently purchased used had 150 hours on it and isnt in that great of shape. My last '06 FW cruiser had 550 hours on it in 2010 when I sold it and was in much better shape than this one - because I bought it new and I'm OCD about keeping things well maintained.
 
We bought our 02 five years ago with less than 200 hours on it. That wasn't an issue for us as we knew the owner had been out of the country for two years on a work assignment and the boat had sat on stands in a boat yard. Even still we had a number of repair issues fixing things that had deteriorated from lack of use. Since then we have added about 300 hours, averaging 70 or so a year.

Henry
 
The problem is that the majority of buyers look at "hours" in much the same way as they look at "miles" on a car odometer. That is the mindset of most people and you are just going to have to find the "right" buyer if you want to get average dollar value on a boat with above average hours on it.
 
This is a good thread. We are on our boat weekly, but a typical day is motor 3 to 5 miles to anchorage at 1500 rpm. Start engines 6 hours later, same speed back, except for maybe 10 mins at most on plane. Sounds like I should do more higher rpm runs of longer duration?
 
All of this discussion leads me to the conclusion that I should have had a baseline eval from Blackstone Labs from new on the engine/gen/drive fluids, and a sample at 100 hr intervals to confirm the condition/progression of each assy's internal wear vis-a-vis established universal standards. Had I known how much I was going to use this boat, I sure would have spent the time to run the tests, giving me a solid, scientific leg to stand on when the dreaded "that's a-lotta-hours" conversation happens at time of sale ....Lessons learned!
 
Billfletcher said:
This is a good thread. We are on our boat weekly, but a typical day is motor 3 to 5 miles to anchorage at 1500 rpm. Start engines 6 hours later, same speed back, except for maybe 10 mins at most on plane. Sounds like I should do more higher rpm runs of longer duration?
Click to expand...

This is my opinion :) others might disagree.

Any petrol engine needs 3 things to stay in top shape (apart from normal maintenance)

1. Usage in the entire RPM spectrum
To low RPM's for too long will build up thick carbon deposits that can cause engine failures due to too high compression ratio's in cylinders and flakes of carbon deposits falling off causing more permanent damage. Carbon deposits can also settle in the valves - so the valves might start to stick. Valves sticking can cause all kinds of "problems" due to changed compression/exhaust pressure change.

To high RPM's for too long can cause increased wear on engine components. Always the "same" RPM's will make the engine settle at those RPM's and can cause damage if suddenly used at a much higher RPM.

2. Engines needs to be completely heated through on a regular basis
If you do a lot of short trips - make certain that you take the engine out at let it run at least 1+ hour on "high cruise" speed once a month or so. The more hours you have put on at low->medium RPM's - the longer you have to make your "monthly cleaning run"

If you don't like going fast (3000-4000+ RPM) from time to time - make certain to use engine cleaner additives on a very regular basis. Sea Foam (which I don't know since it is not available here) or other Carbon Deposit & Valve cleaners. It helps but is not a replacement for operating the engine in the entire spectrum.

3. Let your engine warm up by using it
Don't start your engine and let it warm up before you take it out. Start your engine put load on the engine as soon as you can. Engines have lots of different metals - that expand at different rates. The faster you get your engine to the design temperature - the faster all the components will be "the right size" that the engine manufacture designed the engine for. But don't WOT it when it is cold - just up to normal cruise as soon as you can.

And the above is true for both boat and car engines. The "owned and driven by pensioner" in car sales adverts is not a positive thing :) It is a "run away" indicator.

And don't suddenly change your Operation Profile - if you have only used the boat for lots of small trips at low speed - get the engine used to new speeds gently. And if you buy a 2nd hand boat - treat it as you had just had a new engine installed and let it get used to a new usage profile gently.

I start every season with an engine "log" - I take it out - make certain fuel is fresh and engine is hot - and then I write down all operational parameters (RPM, Temperatures, Fuel Flow, Speed etc) at 500 RPM intervals. Then I plot it into Excel - and print and laminate it - and keep it on the boat for reference. Then on long cruises with plenty of time - I just run through my "parameter list" and if anything is "out of place" - I get an early warning of potential problems.
 
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