Hinged Arch

[osd9]

Ok...here's the scoop....looking to see who has had any experience or can offer advise......

A good friend and neighbor ordered a 2007 320DA. He lives on a canal where there is a bridge restriction....his previous two boats, an 01 340DA and 03 380DA both were delivered without the arch and he had new custom canvas made for each. He sold the 380 because there were just too many times the tide was high where he couldn't fit under the bridge becasue the windshield would hit....

According to the specs, the 320 windshield is 8' 6" from the waterline....I think...

With this boat, he wants to hinge the arch.....him, myself and another neighbor in conjunction with MM have setout on a mission....we have two thoughts right now....1st is to have a hinge manufactured that will fit at the base of the arch. 2nd is to secure the arch as intended from the factory and then cut the arch a few inches below the height of windshield and manufacture a hinge for that area.

in both cases the canvas will have to be modified and we still have to decide whether to tilt forward or aft or both....

option 2 is appealing because the weight will be less and we believe the stress and rock n'roll will also be less....

Has anyone else here on the board done this or have any other thoughts or ideas......pictures are always helpfull.....

thanks,

 

[never monday]

my $.02

I'd hinge it at the base and tip rearward. The structure of the boat and arch are designed for the bolt up there. The lay up should be thicker. Then to get really trick put a hydraulic ram in the gunnal to do the tilt. Akin to a power engine lid.

Pat

 

[Dave S]

Dominc..........you might try sending a PM to RobF300
He does marine fiberglass work for a living and he may be able to tell you something about the arch itself and what you would need to be carefull of if you decided to cut/hinge the arch.

 

[Sea Ray 300]

Dom,

The dealer that you and I have discussed in the past did this to a boat for a customer a couple of years ago. They brought in an aluminum arch fabricator and he custom made a hinge and locking pin, which was nicely concealed inside the arch, where it bolts to the boat. I was considering it for mine, but after finding out that the arch weighs in at 300 or so pounds, decided against it.
I do believe that the 2005?? Chaparral 31 is configured that way from the factory, and you could look at one for ideas.
Also, I recall a thread on SRO a while back, referring to a company that fabricates these hinges. Maybe one of our members has the info.
By the way, the picture of the 41 looks great. Best of luck with her... :thumbsup:

 

[osd9]

Thanks for the quick responses.....one good point already....does anyone know for sure if the arch is aluminum or fiberglass?

 

[Sea Ray 300]

Dom,
Although arches are constructed differently on different boats, and different manufacturers, the arch on mine is fiberglass, over a thick plywood core. Some of the larger Sea Rays may be aluminum.
Remove a speaker, and you'll know right away. Also, the padded cover can be removed, to view the bolting arrangement.
They are fastened using plastic expandable push pins, similar to automobile door upholstery. They may have to be replaced once they are pulled out though, as they won't grab well a second time.

 

[fwebster]

I have seen 2 arches altered with hinges, both for a bridge clearance issue. Both were larger boats, one was a 450EB, the other a 370DB. Both were done by a local company in conjunction with a high end tower builder for the metal work. Both arches were cut and hinged low on the sides where little reinforcement was needed and mating the hinged arch to the side of the boat was not necessary. Both tilted forward and it was necessary to remove or at least loosen the canvas to do so.

This was not a simple task, but these boats were done right. The hinge was concealed and you never knew ther boats had been changed unless you saw the arch folded down. The safety pins were tapered so they doubled as alignment pins. One big challenge for both was all the arch mounted electronic gear and the various cabeling for antennas, radomes etc.

Neither of these boats is in our area now......one guy relocated to the Great Lakes area and moved the boat north, the other passed away and the boat was sold.

THis would be an interesting challenge......I'd point you toward the best glass fabricator in the area. He will have metal and canvas/upholstery contacts (you will need both) and your friend would have one source responsibility for the work.

 

[Dave S]

I just noticed Boltman mentioned he put a hinge on his arch in this post http://www.byowneryachts.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1331&start=15

 

[osd9]

Dave:

I think Boltman said he did NOT have to hinge the arch...he only had to lower the nav light....unless I missed that....besides...on the 38DA the arch is a half hardtop.....

 

[Dave S]

Dave:

I think Boltman said he did NOT have to hinge the arch...he only had to lower the nav light....unless I missed that....besides...on the 38DA the arch is a half hardtop.....

Dominic............This is from his post:

you are a crasey amn indeed as I am... I trailer a 2006 320 with Bravo 3's. Of coarse I do not have the issue's with the prop's as you, but don't you also have a height issu also, I don't see a radar on top of that Boat as well. I had My arch put on a Hinge for Hyway traveling. You certainly have the truck for it, but man hauling ot with a Ball hitch, isn't that hard...I have a fifth wheel for mine and the manuever is Great.

 

[osd9]

Dave:

It's the age thing.....again.....thanks for the heads up...I PM'd Boltman...

thanks,

 

[boltman]

hinged Radar Arch

Gentlemen here are some pics of my arch, I did not do this work, Barrett Boat Works in Michigan did it, It's a great Job and certainly well worth the money..

 

[RobF300]

I hinged a arch on a 31 years ago.

very expensive when its all said and done. Its not as simple as cutting the arch and slapping in hinges- the hinges need to operate PERFECTLY parallel and perpendicular to each other otherwise the hinges want to rip each other off.
The arch itself needs to be reinforced to accept the hinges.

I cut that one right above the windshield so that the lower portion could be attached to the windshield as the factory meant it to be.

Not easy to operate- when that thing reaches halfway you better be holding on.

Canvas needs to be modified and taken down when operating, wiring needs to be rigged to move with the arch- the easiest part of the job was the wiring actually.

Its a 2 man operation as well---did I mention how that arch wants to come down FAST when it reaches halfway? :thumbsup:

 

[osd9]

Boltman:

The pics are great...Gale Winds and I showed them to our neighbor and he got a little weak in the knees. He's very nervous that the back of the arch, when in the down position, will be much higher than the top of the windshield.

Is it all possible that you could measure how much higher than the windshield the back of the arch is when the arch is in the down position? Our Neighbor would sleep much better if he knew the answer to that question.....!!! :thumbsup:

Thans again for all your help, and OH....Your boat looks Great !!!!!

 

[boltman]

Sorry I can't

She's in storage all locked up for the winter, It does come up higher then the windshiled though.....I can do it in the spring. me and the Admiral have been talking about a trip across town to go see her, just sit by Her and tell her it's going to be oK......She's lonely and I'm still making payments Come on...

 

[PMvdb395DA]

Isn't it possible to mount the hinge on the backside so the arch is also going backwards?
If you see the shape of the arch, it should make a difference...

Just an idea :huh:

 

[osd9]

Thanks Bob...I apreciate any help you can provide....and tell her (the Boat I mean) that her bottom will be wet in no time....


Pete:
We have considered have the hinge PINNED on both ends just for that reason. That way, we could tilt forwar or aft.....

 

[RobF300]

tilting it back does give more room, you then need to figure out whats going to hold it up when its tilted back.

I used a pedestal that slid in where the cockpit table went.

All said and done it was over $11000 in modifications with the current canvas being mildly modified, the wiring, custom hinges, and the obvious glass work.

 

[PMvdb395DA]

tilting it back does give more room, you then need to figure out whats going to hold it up when its tilted back.

I used a pedestal that slid in where the cockpit table went.

All said and done it was over $11000 in modifications with the current canvas being mildly modified, the wiring, custom hinges, and the obvious glass work.

When I read all above post, than my idea is to go for tilting it back.
I think, you eliminate the height problem, and it's much easier to hold it up the way Rob described with a pedestal in the table holder.
I think laying your arch on your dashboard, and blocking your view is also bad solution.
I also think that 11K is a very very big price for a solution that is only to put your arch a couple minutes down.
Wiring can be put in for example a pipe that protects it and there are a lot of companies that have the tools and hardware to make the hinge a cheaper job.
What is the glass work that has to be done on a 320?



Peter

 

[RobF300]

the wiring did end up going through a tube, it was done in such a way that the wiring did not end up travelling through the tube itself, rather moved on the lower, stationary portion of the arch.
It actually went through a clear piece of tubing so that you could always keep an eye on the wiring to make sure its operating properly and not being crimped.

You have to de-rig the arch
Carefully make your cuts
Unbolt the arch

Have stainless strap hinges custom made, there is no one that makes a hinge that will just pop on there, these hinges also have to be adequate enough to support the arch.
Try to find a shop to make them out of stainless is the hardest part, usually a fire truck type place will have no problem doing it.
They will also need to drill the hinges out for your wiring to run through.

The hinges will run you $400-$500 if your lucky by the time they polish them.
Dont forget to have them supply you with the proper locking pins and a few spares incase they lose one.

Now you must add strength to all 4 surfaces of the arch where the hinge is going to go- remember you cut it and its hollow inside.
You have to grind all 8 surfaces ( the inside and outside of all 4 hinge points )

Add glass and core material such as choice of wood or composite core with good fastner strength.

Now you must flush fit the hinges into the arch so that when its closed they will almost go away, when done properly the arch will have a very slight space thats almost un-noticable, you cant really overlap to hide the seam because no matter what the arch will now have a little bit of side to side movement when underway and that overlap will end up breaking.

Fitting the hinges is the critical part, you have a arch that curves in and forward, the hinges must operate parrell and perpendicular to each other otherwise the screws and bolts will want to pull themselves apart when operating the arch.

Flush fitting the hinges requires you to put the arch back on the boat, you want the mounting points to be in the position they will be in under normall circumstances- you cant do this on a shop floor.

Flush fitting the hinges requires you to set them in place in fiberglass paste, cant use epoxy unless you want to paint your arch instead of gelcoat.

When that cures you now unbolt the whole deal again, perform all body work to the arch and prep it for gelcoat.
Its a new boat and the arch is on the shop floor so it would be foolish not to re-gel the entire arch.

Spend half a day sanding and polishing the gel when it dries.

Now you rig the wiring to operate with the arch. You can either run 2 tubes for the wiring to run up the port and stbd side, or you can run them up one tube. If you run them up one tube remember you have to now re-rig whatever wiring was on one side of the boat to the other. Not such a easy task.

Place the arch on the boat, bolt it down, apply sealant to surface where arch meets the boat, including the windshield area.

Run your wiring up into the arch.
Rig all electronics on the arch- this includes speakers, lights, radar, running light, courtesy lights, tv antennea, vhf- what ever else you have mounted on there.
You will want to move as much of it to the lower part of the arch to make your life easier.

Now you get your canvas guy in to modify the canvas by putting new zippers and modifying the track where it slides onto the arch, that should run you a few hundred as well.

Fabricate a pedestal system to utilize the factory set up, a pedestal that has sufficient weight to support a arch.
fabricate it in such a way that the top part cradles the arch in the down position.

Apply SEARAY decals to your arch and your done.


when its all said and done you will spend the money I quoted.
You will be unhappy about the bill, and the shop will be unhappy because they actually invested alot more time in it then they can reasonably bill you for. Remember you are not fixing a hole in the hull, your doing something custom that has to be safe enough to operate 5 years down the road.

The customer who had this done lived in an area with a VERY low bridge, money was not the factor more so getting the largest boat possible to his dock at his summer house.
If you were not well off like he was, the obvious choice at the time was a 29AJ with no arch, there were no 30's at the time, only 29Ajs and then the 31 DA.