Help with transmission problem

D

Dr. Pill

New Member
May 7, 2007
8
Took my 2001 SR 310 out last evening after gassing up for a little sunset cruise. I throttled up to get on plane reaching 3200rpm then my starboard engine surged to 4800 but the boat veered to starboard. After throttling down, I tried to go forward at headway speed thinking that I might have caught a line on the starbd prop and the boat tracked straight up to about 6kts the veered right again. Fortunately, we were not far from the dock so I tried to limp back. As we approached the dock, the port engine stalled and once restarted there was no response in either forward or reverse. Now with the port drive out and the starbd "slipping" at anything over 1500rpm, we had only enough manuverability to land on the fuel dock. Once tied up I opened the engine room hatch to find a dry bilge, cool tranny's, and no obvious signs of damage. Fluid was low but normal color. Tried engaging the port drive but there was no movement, starbd side engaged at low rpm. I wasn't able to dive under and check the props but I don't remember any sounds or signs of entanglement prior to these problems. So now I'm waiting for a call back from the tech and all these bad thoughts are racing in my head ?$$$$$$$
Ideas?
 
I had this one figured out until the other side quit pulling. Someone's going to have to diagnose this one at the boat.........sorry.

Be sure to let us know what you figure out.
 
Dr. Pill said:
Took my 2001 SR 310 out last evening after gassing up for a little sunset cruise. I throttled up to get on plane reaching 3200rpm then my starboard engine surged to 4800 but the boat veered to starboard. After throttling down, I tried to go forward at headway speed thinking that I might have caught a line on the starbd prop and the boat tracked straight up to about 6kts the veered right again. Fortunately, we were not far from the dock so I tried to limp back. As we approached the dock, the port engine stalled and once restarted there was no response in either forward or reverse. Now with the port drive out and the starbd "slipping" at anything over 1500rpm, we had only enough manuverability to land on the fuel dock. Once tied up I opened the engine room hatch to find a dry bilge, cool tranny's, and no obvious signs of damage. Fluid was low but normal color. Tried engaging the port drive but there was no movement, starbd side engaged at low rpm. I wasn't able to dive under and check the props but I don't remember any sounds or signs of entanglement prior to these problems. So now I'm waiting for a call back from the tech and all these bad thoughts are racing in my head ?$$$$$$$
Ideas?
Click to expand...

I love a good mystery :)

I just want to make sure the facts are correct:

1) 3200 everythings normal
2) 4500 starboard -boat veers starboard
3) port engine dies ....restarts and won't go forward or back.
4) starboard trans seems to disengage at 1200 rpm

It sure sounds like you have a line wrapped around the port prop and shaft which is why it is behaving the way it is. If it is a line, it probably started on the starboard side when you were at speed and created the current problem with the starboard trans. The trans has internal seals which can fail in this kind of circumstance. When the seals fail, there is insufficient fluid pressure on the drive plates.

If there is no line on the port side, it truly is a mystery.
Please post what they find.

-John
 
Frank and John, thanks for the reply. The service office just called and said the tech won't be able to look at the boat until tomorrow so I'll continue to entertain even wild speculation about the problem.

I thought about a line on the prop but some of the symptoms don't seem to support that diagnosis:
If the port drive is "frozen" due to a fouled prop, why wouldn't the engine stall when I put it in gear?
As mentioned, there is no sign of fluid in the bilge or any visible leaks.
The starbd engine stillmoves the boat in forward and reverse although it "slips" at higher rpms

Another possible clue... I've noticed some black soot around the port exhaust that I initally thought might be left over fogging oil ffrom the winter but it has persisted. I've also noticed some oil sheen from the port pipe that I've never seen before. The engine oil level is fine and clean with normal pressure and temp.
 
Dr. Pill said:
Frank and John, thanks for the reply. The service office just called and said the tech won't be able to look at the boat until tomorrow so I'll continue to entertain even wild speculation about the problem.

I thought about a line on the prop but some of the symptoms don't seem to support that diagnosis:
If the port drive is "frozen" due to a fouled prop, why wouldn't the engine stall when I put it in gear?
As mentioned, there is no sign of fluid in the bilge or any visible leaks.
The starbd engine stillmoves the boat in forward and reverse although it "slips" at higher rpms

Another possible clue... I've noticed some black soot around the port exhaust that I initally thought might be left over fogging oil ffrom the winter but it has persisted. I've also noticed some oil sheen from the port pipe that I've never seen before. The engine oil level is fine and clean with normal pressure and temp.
Click to expand...

Black soot is more in line with an engine running rich. An engine runs rich because the fuel flow is out of balance with the engines condition. The most common example is a choke that doesn't release. Another example is if the engine has a significant load on it and too much fuel is entering the engine.

Is it related, only in the event that the port engine had a material drag on it. Yes, it's possible both transmissions got damaged by the same issue. Yes it is highly unlikely that without a common issue, both transmissions could fail at the same time.

Realistically, how both transmissions are behaving reflect damage to both (no forward or reverse and slipping). I have seen this before in hard grounding situations where both transmissions fail as well as the props, shafts and struts. Once the damage is repaired (struts, props and shafts) the transmissions both slipped when put into gear requiring the engines to be lifted and the transmissions to be replaced.


I am hoping that I am wrong.

I am curious what they find under the boat.

-John
 
Not to scare you to death, but did you see this thread:

http://www.byowneryachts.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4298&highlight=

I didn't mention the oil coolers because you said you checked the transmission fluid and it looked ok..........and the planets would really have to be aligned and a voodoo doll have your name on it for both oil coolers to fail at precisely the same time.

So, its still a mystery to me..........wish I could go look at the boat!
 
My tech just called and the mystery is solved. Port transmission oil cooler has failed and ingested water. He said the sbd drive is ok but is making a "clicking noise" and is low on fluid. No damage to the props or running gear. His solution is to replace the oil coolers and rebuild the tranny's. He quoted a price of $465/tran for the rebuild (outsourced to Atlantic Trans) plus $250/cooler plus 9hrs labor. Oh , and a 2-3 week turn around time.
 
That doesn't sound too bad. It'll all be better before you know it.

Good luck.
 
Hello this question was for Frank. would you know if the Horizons coolers were different because mine seems to be copper?Im wondering if you know if these ones were the ones with the problem. youve got me a little nervous.
 
I am sorry, but I really don't know much more than my original post.

But here is what we do know:

1.This only affects Mercruiser transmission oil coolers.
2.The problem is certainly no secret to the dealers since there are no replacement transmissions available from Mercruiser.
3. The problem oil coolers probably affect fairly new engines since it seems that the dealers have been hitting Mercruiser on warranty claims for this problem (since there are no replacements in the Merc parts system).
4.Based on Dr.Pill's experience, it looks like the problem goes back to at least 2001.

My recommendation would be to ask the service manager at your dealer which ones are the problem design and ask for his recommendation. Even if you plan to replace yours yourself, he's going to try to help you since he's seeing a 3 hour + $5 to $600 or about $1000 easy work order.

Sorry I'm not able to give you any more than something else to worry about on this one.............
 
I'm very glad the mystery is solved.....yet I have to admit to being amazed that two failures resulting from different causes occured within minutes of each other.

I've seen the water ingestion Frank references via the cooler. Normally the trans fluid changes it's color pretty quickly and is unable to provide the hydraulic force to operate the transmission. By that point the trans fluid color is definitely different.

The explanation on the starboard trans is also interesting. When you checked the dipsticks, you mentioned it was a bit low. It would have to be not readable on the dipstick for that slipping to occur. That would then raise the question: "where did the fluid go?". Also the clicking sound can come from a number of things. Usually it is from the drive plates because not enough hydraulic pressure is being created.

In any event, the recommended path is the correct one. Unfortunately, it's expensive. Pulling and rebuilding both transmissions will give you piece of mind for the future.

Maybe there is something to Frank's voodoo comments......

-John
 
Thanks to all who replied for your interest and comments. Although I'm in no position to doubt the findings of my mechanic, I'm not really satisfied with his hypothesis regarding the starboard transmission. As I mentioned, the fluid level on the starbd side was low but not "dry", nor was color abnormal. I guess we will see what happened when the trannys are broken down. In the meantime I am feeling the effects of boat withdrawa and it's not fun!l
 
When the oil cooler fails, the transmission fluid is pumped out of the transmission. When internal fluid pressure drops too low then cooling water in drawn back in to the transmission. This happend with the one that failed, the one that was just low on fluid was probably caught just in time.

Can that transmission be saved? You don't know until the case is open and you inspect the clutch plates, bearings, etc. However, at that point, you have already spent the majority of the labor money and all you'd be out for a complete rebuild is the parts for the rebuild kit. There are 2 schools of thought on this....."fix it now and right and avoid future problems" or "save the last nickle and hope for the best".........I subscribe to the first, particularly in view of the repair cost estimates you have been given.
 
Frank, this happened with my friends 330EC. The oil cooler corroded and failed resulting in a new tranny. He recommended that I replace both of mine as a precaution. What do you think?
 
Transmission repair

After 4 weeks, the transmission repair is finished. Port tranny was replaced and the starboard rebuilt for a total cost of $7,383 (parts and labor). As Frank had mentioned in his thread on transmission oil coolers, replacing these units at regular intervals might prevent such costly repairs. The question is,. how often? According to the mechanic there is no easy way to test the coolers to determine if failure is imminent.
 
Jims380DA said:
Frank, this happened with my friends 330EC. The oil cooler corroded and failed resulting in a new tranny. He recommended that I replace both of mine as a precaution. What do you think?
Click to expand...

What year 330EC? When did it happen (how old)? How many hours? If we're going to nail this thing down, then we need some data.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,256
Messages
1,429,440
Members
61,135
Latest member
Gregger
Back
Top