Help please!! Raw water pump

D

deerock

Member
Jun 29, 2008
77
Nassau County New York
Boat Info
270 Amberjack 2007
Engines
320 Bravo III Horizon
I purchased a new 2007 270 Amberjack in June of 2008. After the first 90 days my raw water pumps pulley wobbled, belt disconnected and overheated 3 miles off shore. Got towed in. Mechanic was called and replaced the pump. All was well until my marina winterized motor and noticed, you guessed it, a wobbley pulley and raw water pump failure again. So this will make 3 pumps in 3 years!! Is this a warranty issue, poor design to say the least, I have the extended warranty...Is this covered? I am at my wits end....any help is appreciated.. Thanks all!!:smt100
 
Deerock, I'm going to approach this from an engine perspective as apposed to a boat! I have a MGB 1980, original parts are no longer available. So there are Jap. copies, Chinese copies and parts made in England from original specs.The difference in the water pumps is amazing! Are you sure your mech. is using Merc. parts or is he using a non OEM part? Is the serpentine belt too Tight?
I would question the Mechanic!
 
Thanks Marshall!! The mechanic installed genuine merc parts. I watched him do the job. He is from the dealer from where I purchased the boat. Serpentine belt seemed fine as per mechanic. Just need to know if it is a warranty job or something they are expecting me to pay.
 
Not so much "bad design" as this is a very uncommon problem. Something else is going on.

Whether it's covered or not could depend on what (whose) warranty you bought. However, since it was an existing problem, that always helps. I'd be surprised if it wasn't covered (although, personally I'm not up to speed on all the ins and outs of warranty coverage) - but the best way to know is to ask them.
 
spoke to the dealer today and he said he changes his on his boat every year. He said the rubber impeller breaks down over time and is always scrunched up and needs attention. He said the most I would get out of it is usually 2 years based on the type of boating I do. Wish I knew I was going to have to spend hundreds of dollars every 2 years as preventative maintanence. No warranty, no help,...i feel a little bit duped.
 
Welcome to the most p!ss poor design in the marine industry. I get 3 years out of a set of impellers if I strech it. This will be year 2 on this set. Next set (if I still have the boat) I am biting to bullet and going to a crank mount conversion kit. It turns a several hundred dollar pay a mechanic unless you are a contortionist job into a couple of hour DIY the first time and <1 hour thereafter. It's the bronze colored thing bottom center of the engine.



Volvo uses it. Crusader uses it. Marine Power uses it. Merc does not. Merc is Satanic.
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deerock said:
Thanks Marshall!! The mechanic installed genuine merc parts. I watched him do the job. He is from the dealer from where I purchased the boat. Serpentine belt seemed fine as per mechanic. Just need to know if it is a warranty job or something they are expecting me to pay.
Click to expand...
What parts were changed? Are they putting a whole new pump on? Did they just rebuild the old one? When you refer to wobbly pulley, do you mean the shaft brgs went out or is it just the pulley itself wobbling on the shaft?
 
deerock said:
spoke to the dealer today and he said he changes his on his boat every year. He said the rubber impeller breaks down over time and is always scrunched up and needs attention. He said the most I would get out of it is usually 2 years based on the type of boating I do. Wish I knew I was going to have to spend hundreds of dollars every 2 years as preventative maintanence. No warranty, no help,...i feel a little bit duped.
Click to expand...

Deer, you are mixing two different things, the impeller and the water pump housing/pulley/etc.

The impeller is a serviceable part inside the raw water pump. Certainly when your dealer is saying to change this every year or two they are referring only to the impeller.

The impeller:
This is a serviceable part called an impeller. It’s made of rubber. The part number is 862232A 2 and costs $28.15/each @ JMS online, possibly less elsewhere. Think of this like a set of tires for your car. Yes, it wears out. If you have this changed for you most places bill around 2+ hours labor per impeller for a Bravo drive boat. You have one in each engine so that’s 4+ hours of labor. Most of the expense is labor.

How long should this last? Mercury says 3 years or 100 hours unless you are in extreme conditions. What are extreme conditions? People who run up on sand with the motor on, sucking sand and its sandpaper type abrasion into the raw water pump or turn the motor over out of the water without supplying water via muffs.

If you have basic mechanical skills you can learn how to change this yourself. Working in your 2007 270 AJ engine compartment is a dream compared to mine and I’m 6’2” and 238 lbs (down from 251 and still working on more weight loss!) You can do this with basic tools, wrenches, sockets, screwdriver, etc. About the most exotic tool you would need is a deep 9/16” socket and you can do the job without this but it’s a lot easier with it. Expect to swear a few times the first time you do it, less the second, and be down to well under 2 hours per impeller by the third time.

The hardest part is learning how to get your head, body, arms and legs low in your engine compartment. Only experience can teach you how. Just get it in your head that you will be lying on the bottom of the bilge over the stingers, you are not going to dangle upside down. It’s just not that hard of a job once you put your mind to it and decide failure is not a option.

If you want to do a DYI impeller change let us know and we can talk you thru it.


The raw ware pump/housing/pulley/etc.

That part is concerning.

If you have gone thru 3 new water pumps on a 2007 boat something is going on.

Three water pump pulleys shot over 4 seasons means something is going on.

I have a strong hunch on what is causing it but I am hesitant to post it. I am sure Dennis is also hesitant, he is a lot nicer them me. I’m trying to turn a new leaf on the improved re-launched message board and be less presumptuous. So before I post my hunch my request is for you to clarify your post and answer the below.

Does the dealer offer an explanation as to why you went thru 3 water pump pulleys in 4 years?
 
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I'm not sure what pump is on your setup, but mine is a bronze pump. I had water squirting out from the shaft onto the back of the pully while running last August. After removing the serpentine belt I discovered that the pulley was able to "wobble" enough to leak water out even without spinning. I removed the pump and replaced the shaft/bearings/seal assembly and replaced with new which solved the leaking problem. Upon closer inspection of the old part, it was clear that the bearings failed due to water intrusion which allowed the shaft to be pulled off centre by the serpentine belt. Being off centre allowed water to leak out beside the shaft.

My point is that while my bearings were shot and water was leaking out - with the engine running I never observed a "wobbly pulley". The symptom was a water leak. Only after removing the belt and manipulating the pulley by hand could I detect any "wobble".
 
Thanks for all your help!!! Heres the deal. Went to boat yesterday and my observations are:
1. The serpentine bel is half off the raw water pump pulley.
2. The pully is about 3/4 out of the housing.
3. Shaft is exposed and I can see loose fittings.
4. Bearings are shot.
5. Took belt off and I was able to slide pulley and shaft out.

As mentioned earlier thie entire pump was replaced in 2009 for same exact problem. This will make the 3rd pump in less than 3 years. Dealer says "this is part of normal maintanance" Before I "out" the dealer please let me know your thoughts.
Presentation.....you mention you may know the cause of this. My email is dlehr1@optonline.net since you feel hesitant about posting it publicly. Bottom line is that I am replacing it no matter what and if I pay for it out of my pocket I want to know what to do to prevent spending over $1200.00 every 3 years.
Thanks!!!!
 
Presentation hit the nail on the head - many times.

Replacing the impeller is normal maintenance - replacing the whole shebang is not even close to normal maintenance. It's quite normal for the housing to last 10 - 20 years.
 
Boat 024.jpg
Here is a picture of the shaft coming out of the housing. Dennis....any idea what can be causing this? Thanks again!!!!:smt001
 
I cannot speak to the expected longevity of the housings, however, my engines are 2007's and I am on my second set of impellers. The housings look new. The mech who changed them in 2010 said the housings were in great shape. My boating from 2007 to date includes both fresh and salt water. I have friends in mostly fresh water whose boats are 10 years old and they are on the original housings.
 
You may want to check the link to a pump diagram out. It's a 8,1Ltr pump, but sounds like it's the same as yours. The entire shaft assembly slides into the pump housing from the pulley end of the pump. It seems to be held in by friction (press fit) and the front seal (metal). I believe I coated this seal with loc-tight before tapping it in and have not had any issues with it working its way out

In your case it appears that this seal has come out of the cone and based other details it is likely that one or both of your bearings got bad enough to spin within the housing. This is based on your statement that you could pull the assembly out of the front of the housing (seemingly with ease) I would not suggest replacing just the bearing/shaft assembly if the housing is damaged - replace the entire pump assembly.

What caused this? Could be a seal leak from the impeller side allowing water into the bearings; could be a bad bearing; could be the belt was set too tight and killed the bearing. Not sure - just my opinion.

Check out the schematic...

http://www.perfprotech.com/store/assembly/SEAWATER-PUMP,7460-210.aspx

These pumps should last for at least 10 yrs and I would hope, even more. I was surprised that mine blew a water seal, but it was used in salt water which can cause more maintenance issues. :wow:
 
It's odd for one of these pumps to fail. Yes, it happens - heck it's a mechanical thing so anything is possible. But, to keep happening... something else is going on. I hope they actually did put a new pump on and not just bang it back together. Hopefully the shop would stand behind their work. Granted, it's two years out now, but this is also the third time it's happened. The odds of getting a bad pump 3 times? I wouldn't take that bet at a 1,000,000 to one.
 
I usually do my own service work, but when I have a mechanic complete the work I always let them know up front that I'll be expecting a bag containing my old parts that were replaced.

Did you? Hmm...
 
deerock said:
Thanks for all your help!!! Heres the deal. Went to boat yesterday and my observations are:
1. The serpentine bel is half off the raw water pump pulley.
2. The pully is about 3/4 out of the housing.
3. Shaft is exposed and I can see loose fittings.
4. Bearings are shot.
5. Took belt off and I was able to slide pulley and shaft out.

As mentioned earlier thie entire pump was replaced in 2009 for same exact problem. This will make the 3rd pump in less than 3 years. Dealer says "this is part of normal maintanance" Before I "out" the dealer please let me know your thoughts.
Presentation.....you mention you may know the cause of this. My email is dlehr1@optonline.net since you feel hesitant about posting it publicly. Bottom line is that I am replacing it no matter what and if I pay for it out of my pocket I want to know what to do to prevent spending over $1200.00 every 3 years.
Thanks!!!!
Click to expand...
It's unclear to me how may pumps actually went out. When I read the original post it sounds to me like the current one will be #2 that went out. Like already said here, changing impellers could be considered normal and the frequency depends on how/where your boat is used, but the type of failures you're having are not something normally expected and certainly shouldn't be considered annual maintenance. The first thing I would suspect is that the pumps are rebuilt, whether or not they are your original housings would be beside the point. If a pump with a worn or damaged bearing housing was used it would explain your problems. I'm guessing you have a bronze pump like this http://www.offshorewake.com/shop/index.php/pump-sea-w-o-air-4-3-6-2-w-555.html , if so, adhesive is supposed to be used on the outer retainer/seal. Loctite 609 is recommended. It's hard to tell in your pic, do you see any adhesive residue on the outer retainer/seal, Loctite 609 is green for example. Other than that the only thing I could guess would be damage seals letting in water or excessive belt tension killing the bearings. What did your work orders say on the previous repairs? Did they actually list a new pump assembly was installed?

This is a ***** for you but this is simple stuff for a technician that knows what he's doing. They should be able to disassemble the pump and tell you exactly what happened to it. That total pump replacement is a routine annual event is not an acceptable answer from them. Good luck.
 
Allow my two scents.

  1. Is there a hose above your pump? Check to see if its leaking onto your waterpump housing. The smallest of leaks will destroy bearings.
  2. Is your water cock strainer in good shape? Sometimes rocks get to the pump and lock up the pump causing a jolt that could ruin the bearings.
  3. Belt tension might be too tight adding stress to the water pump.
Just trying to help... What you are going through is not normal!
 
Thanks for all your help. Pictures and statement going to dealer today. And yes Woody...this is the second pump that is shot. Number 3 will be the new one I need to get installed. I will keep you posted on the outcome!!! Thanks again for all your help!!!
 
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