Generator leaking?

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines/Drives/Transmissions/Props' started by dtfeld, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    2001 410, think I have a fuel leak on or into the generator.

    Anyway to shutoff fuel to the generator only. I would like to isolate to diagnose. Fuel panel only has a port and starboard engine shutoff. Owner supplement not very helpful...

    Dave
     
  2. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    I believe you will find the shut-off valves for the supply and return on top of the starboard fuel tank right next to the generator.
     
  3. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    Not sure about yours Dave, but I have a panel behind my transom door when open that has 2-valves for the gen. One for each tank plus a shut off for each tank.

    TTMott is likely spot on.

    Bennett
     
  4. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Carter had the same answer, but when I looked it didn’t find them. There appears to be a fitting leaking, so I guess I’ll have to add them.
     
  5. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    USCG and AYBC H-33 requires a shutoff valve at the tank. Specifically where fuel can "syphon"; and, no doubt, fuel can syphon on the generator's fuel system as it's lower than the fuel level in the tank.
    There must be a valve on the tank unless someone removed them. This drawing i from the 410 owners manual.
    upload_2018-4-7_3-36-41.png
     
  6. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    I have to assume a P.O. did some “work”. I pulled the small starboard engine hatch and could see where the fuel lines exit the tank, but shut offs not there. Racor is not in the location depicted (installed back against starboard side of boat).

    It only seems to leak when the generator is leaking, I didn’t run it the past 2 days and fuel odor is mostly gone.

    I suspect a fitting. It’s extremely rusted and laying directly on the bilge floor next to the generator.

    Regardless, the whole shooting match needs some attention.

    Now do I tackle the generator and smell like diesel, or the head and smell like poop? Or both? Happy Pride of Ownership Day!
     
  7. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Well, found the shut off. It had cut its way up into the sound insulation, buried, and was a few inches in front of the outlet.
     
  8. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    David - When I had a fuel leak on one of my 3126's, FrankW was kind enough to suggest the technique of using a paper towel and start at the highest point wiping parts top to bottom until you discovered fuel - that technique easily ID'd the leak for me.
     
  9. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Thanks Cater and Frank. I have a suspicion that the leak is a rusted fitting laying down at the back of the bilge. Thats a quick and easy thing to bring to the boat and change out. Have to look at the westerbeke manual make sure thats not some specialty hose or fitting.

    Its going to be a smelly trip Fitting.jpg
     
  10. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    The OEM fittings are bronze and cannot be rusty. Sea Ray also uses black USCG certified fuel lines. Therefore, i’m thinking the red hose is a locally obtained replacement and if the connectors are rusty it is because the replacement was made wit common or industrial instead of marine fittings.

    If that is diesel fuel all around the fuel line connection it is going to be difficult to isolate the source of the leak if the line is dripping fuel. I think you might be ahead of the game (and cleaner) if you use a spray degreaser that is biodegradable to clean up the residue after you soak up what you can with cheap oil absorbent pads. When the area is clean, unscrew the wire tie hold-downs and support the fuel lines off the bilge floor a bit, dry the fuel lines with paper towels or an absorbent pad, open the shut off valve and watch for drips.

    And, just get over getting diesel fuel on you. Anytime you have a leak or open the fuel system, you are going to get fuel on you. Latex or vinyl gloves may help but the lost tactile ability translates into longer exposure to raw diesel. Personally, I’d just rather forget the glove thing, get with it and get it over with, then go wash up.

    Good luck with it........
     
  11. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    646
    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Thanks Frank. THis is the end I could see, I assume the other end is just as bad.
     
  12. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    The easiest way to handle this is to replace the entire line since the fittings are swedged on by a hydraulic press at the supplier that makes up the hose. Additionally, unless that red hose is marked for fuel use, I would replace it anyway because diesel fuel will soften some hydraulic hoses which is the usual substitute when a hose supplier has no fuel hoses in stock. I don't know about your sources in ATL, but I have to wait until I am in Florida to get fuel or marine hydraulic hoses made….nobody close by in Tennessee has bronze fittings.
     
  13. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    dtfeld, as if you don't have anything else to do......it's time to look over all your hose clamps, if they're rusty replace them.
     
  14. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Just curious...where is that fuel line going? or coming from? I know in the 410 the gen is stbd side aft of the fuel tank, and if fuel is drawn from the stbd tank, why would a fuel line be heading aft and away from the tank?
     
  15. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    I'm wondering if it's a fuel line at all, maybe it's an oil drain line.
    410generator.JPG
     
  16. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    It is a diesel boat. You can see red residue from the dye in the fuel in his photo and raw diesel has a distinctive odor that is hard to miss. Besides, if it were engine oil, the floor of the bilge would be black since diesel oil contains soot.
     
  17. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    It'll be interesting to find out. I'm thinking if that hose is an oil drain line it would account for materials not up to fuel line spec and maybe it's not leaking at all, so no black oil to be seen....yet. The real fuel leak is oozing around everything in the area including that hose.

    I get a kick out of your suggestion to dive in bare handed and wash up when you're done. When I was a kid I was around some old timer loggers of north WI. A mix of diesel fuel and motor oil kept their saws clean and rust free, was a good lubricant, kept their skin from being chapped, and smeared around the neck and face kept the bugs from chewin'.:)
     
  18. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Another long shot...your fuel fill hose runs just above the gen. Could be the source of your leak?? Any fuel running down the inside of the hull behind and above the gen?
     
  19. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Another possibility - you have the pesky little in-line on-engine fuel filter that has a couple of funky rubber gaskets which will leak if you forget one when you reinstall the cartridge, or if you don't pick out the old o-ring/gasket at the top after you remove the cannister and cartridge. I've spent a few hours in the ER of a buddy with a 410, and that filter is the same exact part as my WB gas generator's fuel filter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  20. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB and Kencraft 190 CC
    QSM11's
    That looks an awful lot like my oil drain line, gen side painted red from the factory then connected to black hose going to the Reverso. Is your gen plumbed into your Reverso?
     
    dtfeld likes this.

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