Garmin Boat Switch?

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Other than more inputs and outputs, I'm struggling to see the advantage over CZone which shows up on the Garmin plotters just fine. Bonus points to CZone because the Siren Marine Pro can also interface to CZone, allowing you to control circuits even if you are not on the boat.
 
bobeast said:
Other than more inputs and outputs, I'm struggling to see the advantage over CZone which shows up on the Garmin plotters just fine. Bonus points to CZone because the Siren Marine Pro can also interface to CZone, allowing you to control circuits even if you are not on the boat.
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Seems like it’s more suitable for a retrofit by an owner vs Czone. Garmin also doesn’t own Czone; they bought another competing company.
 
Seems like everyone is getting into digital switching. Raymarine also announced their system.

With glass helms today it only seems logical. Replacing old switchpads may not be that straight forward.

-Kevin
 
From a functional standpoint, it would certainly work (or replace the EIM). Both the Garmin Boat Switch (and others) are, essentially, the same thing as the EIM system. Both have a "brain" and electronic switches. However, downstream of the brain, everything (wiring) is back to the normal 12V system that's been around forever. A nav light doesn't care one bit what type of system is in place to do the switching - it just needs 12V. In other words, these new fangled things are just "fancy switches" controlling an old (and generally reliable) system. Cool stuff, though.
 
Lazy Daze said:
From a functional standpoint, it would certainly work (or replace the EIM). Both the Garmin Boat Switch (and others) are, essentially, the same thing as the EIM system. Both have a "brain" and electronic switches. However, downstream of the brain, everything (wiring) is back to the normal 12V system that's been around forever. A nav light doesn't care one bit what type of system is in place to do the switching - it just needs 12V. In other words, these new fangled things are just "fancy switches" controlling an old (and generally reliable) system. Cool stuff, though.
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As long as the amp loads can be handled it "should" be just a matter of making adapting harnesses to switch from one to the other. In the Sea Rays with forward and rear EIMs this could get expensive to replace.

I think personally I would favor an "open" switching system as long as the MFD manufactures give us the tools to layout buttons and controls easily. In an ideal world if this is all N2K based then we could control everything from an MFD or a wireless connected device (phone/tablet or even like Alex/Google/Siri).

-Kevin
 
KevinC said:
... I think personally I would favor an "open" switching system as long as the MFD manufactures give us the tools to layout buttons and controls easily. In an ideal world if this is all N2K based then we could control everything from an MFD or a wireless connected device (phone/tablet or even like Alex/Google/Siri). ...
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It pretty much works exactly like that except for Alexa etc. I doubt Garmin/Martron/CZone will add that support, but no reason they couldn't.

With an all N2K switching system one thing needs to be understood and that is the "switch" can be anywhere and have many sources. Meaning a switch panel in a dash and also a remote app. What is really nice is in the switch panels when you add switches if they are not in the right order you like, simple change the switch cover and reassign in software and you're done. There is basically no wiring for switches except an N2K cable feed. If you use Maretron MPower the wiring needed is very limited, one main power line and then a single power feed to the light or windlass even. So far I love this stuff.
 
I need to understand fundamentally how the wiring setup for this works under the covers. Lets take 1 light as an example. The OEM switch simply has 1 side coming from a 12V power source and the other side going to the light. So how do you insert this new digital switching module into that scenario? Does the original switch still work or are you completely replacing it with your new digital switching module? Do you place the new switching module right next to your helm switching panel and rewire everything into it?

Thanks in advance for helping me understand the method used to set this up
 
jlanka said:
I need to understand fundamentally how the wiring setup for this works under the covers. Lets take 1 light as an example. The OEM switch simply has 1 side coming from a 12V power source and the other side going to the light. So how do you insert this new digital switching module into that scenario? Does the original switch still work or are you completely replacing it with your new digital switching module? Do you place the new switching module right next to your helm switching panel and rewire everything into it?

Thanks in advance for helping me understand the method used to set this up
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With the digital switching you would be replacing your current switch - although technically you could design a dual path power source with properly sized and placed diodes - but lets leave that aside for now.

If you current boat had an EIM and you wanted to replace it then you could replicate the functions using this or similar device - then program the MFD display to send the signals to turn things on/off. Basically you could design a harness that adapts the output of the digital switch to match the existing boats wiring. This assumes that the current loads could also be matched. Meaning if the new switch only has 3 15A circuits and you needed 5 you might need to use two switches.

Now if your boat had conventional switches then each mechanical switch could be replaced by mapping it to the output of one of the circuits on the digital switch. The wiring remains the same - positive runs out to the device from the switch and the negative is returned to the common ground.

One of the benefits of digital switching is the fact that it is networked and can be distributed throughout the boat. The ones being discussed here are being controlled over the NEMA 2000 network. This means the switches can be located in different locations around the boat and controlled by any device on the network. Here is where my faith in the industry falls down. While these are working on a standard network I am guessing that Garmin and Raymarine are going to restrict their MFDs from working with other digital switches. Lets hope there will be an "open" approach to this and that any digital switch could be controlled by anything with the programming on the N2K network. If this is the case you could potentially control any switch from your MFD at the helm (or installed elsewhere). You could also then have an "app" on your phone/tablet/computer that could also be programmed to control any switch.

This logic could be applied to anything controlled by a switch - so not just your lighting - it could be your horn, windless, bowthruster, etc. It looks like these digital switch support both toggled and momentary - but with the programmed control on the MFD it looks like advanced functions are coming. On the Garmin it looks like there can be timer switches - the example given was for a bait well pump on a boat that could come on every X minutes for y minutes to automatically cycle allowing the pump to bring new water into the well to keep it fresh.

This system is technically similar to the old CAN-BUS systems that many people complain about here with failing EIMs. The problem with these EIMs is not the technology it is just the supply and cost of new systems. These CAN-BUD systems are used in many places today and most cars today use this for all the commands being sent by the switches in the car. One common place for this is the steering wheel controls - and many are also integrating the switching on their digital displays.

-Kevin
 
I should add to this that is looks like the Yacht Devices N2K switch mentioned by reference in the above link buy @SKybolt does allow for control via N2K signalling or your old switch and it would be wired in line from the output of the old (or other) switch.

-Kevin
 
jlanka said:
I need to understand fundamentally how the wiring setup for this works under the covers. Lets take 1 light as an example. The OEM switch simply has 1 side coming from a 12V power source and the other side going to the light. So how do you insert this new digital switching module into that scenario? Does the original switch still work or are you completely replacing it with your new digital switching module? Do you place the new switching module right next to your helm switching panel and rewire everything into it?

Thanks in advance for helping me understand the method used to set this up
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In all seriousness, you should take a look at the manual. I just skimmed it; there are 2 connectors with wire bundles. Each wire seems to be intended for a certain type of circuit (nav lights, tank levels, general switches).
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/Boat_Switch_Install_EN-US.pdf

It seems like the Garmin module gets supplied power with a 50A service. Then you connect the 12v+ line from the Garmin direct to the switched object, and the 12v- to the negative bus.

The Garmin device performs the actual switching via signals from the GPS screen or a digital switch installed separately.

A physical digital switch doesn’t switch the controlled device directly as with a regular switch. It sends a signal to the Garmin hub that you want an action and then the hub executes the switching activity. Kind of like a relay.
 
So I'm guessing you would make all the connections at the switch panel at the helm correct? At least for all the DC devices.
 
@KevinC I did have the Yacht Devices YDCC-04 last season and just switched to MPower by Maretron. The YD device isn't designed correctly in my book. The device has 4 inputs/outputs and led outputs. Sounds great right? The connections to this device are small spring clipped connectors meant for bus wire not 16/14/12 gauge wire. You can't get the wire into the slot, and the device supports 10 amps per output with 20A instantaneous. But the really bad part is, while you can use any switch to turn on/off the outputs the LED status output is only 3.3v @ 100ma meant for a single led max. So lighting up the Contura status bulb is not possible and how I blew this module up in trying different ways of doing that. That module is meant for the little round switches with a single status LED.
 
jlanka said:
So I'm guessing you would make all the connections at the switch panel at the helm correct? At least for all the DC devices.
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To Brad's @b_arrington point a step further, the Garmin unit is setup to be a complete system monitor and digital switching device. And looks like the perfect candidate for replacing Sea Rays system monitor, baring any engine stat's.

You need to forget about how normal switches work because N2K digital switching works on communications and digital signals. The physical switches are digital communicators and send signals to the control module. So the control module, this device, would need to go near the EIM box so the wires could be switched easily. Keep in mind all of the switching would now be done by the MFD's that support digital switching. You would need to add N2K switches, like Maretron's VMM6 switches, to have physical switches again.
 
I'm all in on this technology but for one thing - it brings a single point failures into the boat's systems; the ECM, the control buss, and HMI interface. If the digital switching controller suffers a fault, for example, the entire system including everything being switched or controlled fails. Maretron sells an option for bypass manual switching which is what I would have to add. In my opinion I would not move to digital switching without a manual backup/override for any critical systems - bilge pumps, nav lighting, windlass, engine starting, etc. Unless I was completely retrofitting a boat this doesn't bring anything to the table for me other than the gee whiz bang coolness.
 
SKybolt said:
To Brad's @b_arrington point a step further, the Garmin unit is setup to be a complete system monitor and digital switching device. And looks like the perfect candidate for replacing Sea Rays system monitor, baring any engine stat's.

You need to forget about how normal switches work because N2K digital switching works on communications and digital signals. The physical switches are digital communicators and send signals to the control module. So the control module, this device, would need to go near the EIM box so the wires could be switched easily. Keep in mind all of the switching would now be done by the MFD's that support digital switching. You would need to add N2K switches, like Maretron's VMM6 switches, to have physical switches again.
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Also, the Garmin switch module REQUIRES a Garmin MFD to configure and control the switch.
 
SKybolt said:
To Brad's @b_arrington point a step further, the Garmin unit is setup to be a complete system monitor and digital switching device. And looks like the perfect candidate for replacing Sea Rays system monitor, baring any engine stat's.

You need to forget about how normal switches work because N2K digital switching works on communications and digital signals. The physical switches are digital communicators and send signals to the control module. So the control module, this device, would need to go near the EIM box so the wires could be switched easily. Keep in mind all of the switching would now be done by the MFD's that support digital switching. You would need to add N2K switches, like Maretron's VMM6 switches, to have physical switches again.
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The EIM box is the DC switch panel (for DC powered devices?
 
jlanka said:
The EIM box is the DC switch panel (for DC powered devices?
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With boats that have an EIM the switches talk digitally to the EIM and the EIM controls the output. One switch pad with 12 "Switches" only needs one connection to the EIM. The 12vdc power is supplied to the EIM that passes it to the individual circuit.

You can think about it like a water manifold - just for electric.

-Kevin
 
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