fractional ownership

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by delayed gratification, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. delayed gratification

    delayed gratification New Member

    33
    Sep 10, 2008
    Fort Lauderdale
    Intrepid 377 Walkaround 2009
    Triple 275 Mercury Verados
    Just curious about experiences or advice regarding fractional ownership. Are there any Sea Ray dealerships in the Great Lakes area selling fractional ownerships on 42-48 ft yachts?
     
  2. WTP07

    WTP07 New Member

    219
    Jul 16, 2008
    Southwestern Ontario
    1985 Cruisers Inc
    Ultra Vee 336
    T454 Crusaders - 700HP
    I've never heard of that for a boat, but I suppose it happens. It would be interesting to see how they would deal with things like damage, breakdowns, return delays due to inclement weather etc...

    I think you'd want to be good friends with the people you are sharing with...

    Randy.
     
  3. tc410

    tc410 Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    717
    Oct 9, 2006
    Charlevoix, MI/Jupiter, FL
    2005 550DB
    MAN CRM-900
    I'll sell you fractional ownership in my 410da. How does 52 weeks/year sound?

    Seriously though, I have not heard of anybody - Sea Ray dealer or otherwise - doing this type of program up here. Typically, these setups are offered by third party "management" companies anyway, and not through actual dealers. A boat limited to the Great Lakes would be tough to do a fractional ownership also because of the long lay-up period and short boating season. It would likely require a scenario involving getting the boat south for the winter so that its use would justify the cost. My $.02.
     
  4. tmhudson2

    tmhudson2 New Member

    885
    Aug 30, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Although I haven't heard of Sea Ray dealers doing programs like this, there is an outfit promoting fractional ownership of smaller boats in our area, as part of a larger chain.

    I see no reason why this couldn't work, if set up well. My father-in-law has been a member of two flying clubs, who share the ownership of one or more general aviation aircraft among their members. They were set up as not-for-profit corporations, with charter, bylaws, officers, etc. The most important position was the maintenance officer, and for taking on this task he got a certain number of free hours use of the aircraft. Another officer was in charge of scheduling the use of the plane, and a log was kept so that operating expenses could be billed to the user, based on hours and tenths of use.

    I would be leery of any fractional ownership plan set up along the lines of a for-profit condominium timeshare business. The resale vale is too low, almost non-existant in some cases, relative to the purchase price.
     
  5. delayed gratification

    delayed gratification New Member

    33
    Sep 10, 2008
    Fort Lauderdale
    Intrepid 377 Walkaround 2009
    Triple 275 Mercury Verados
    I appreciate the advice. It may well be too complicated to construct and perhaps, more importantly, to dissolve. I was just trying to think of a way to defray the large fixed costs associated with boat ownership. I would definitely want partners of like mind, with pride and care of ownership and not "rental car" mentality. I probably need to face the reality that boating is a passionate,expensive hobby and not a fiscally sound investment and go for it. After all, it looks like a buyers market, so the up front costs should be less.
     
  6. Chris R

    Chris R Member

    751
    Mar 17, 2008
    Bloomington, Il - formerly in Gig Harbor, WA
    In between boats, now. Former boat: 2008 340 DA
    8.1 Horizons w/V-drives
    At the recent Lake Union Boat show in Seattle, we talked with the crew of a 200+ yacht while touring it. The owners were all fractional- and I think they were looking for more. Really, I guess you could call it investors since you needed to put up a couple of mil, minimum. I think the benefits included a few weeks a year (fully crewed) plus your fraction of any charters- which is really what the boat was all about.

    As far as smaller vessels, I've heard of it- think time share.
     
  7. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    I have a group of friends who have a four way partnership on a 36' catamaran (blowboat). Another group of friends who have a four way partnership on a small plane. (one couple in common on both groups).

    It is VERY important, IMHO, for the owners to all be friends. That helps smooth disagreements. . . plus sometimes you get to go down and use the toy on THEIR weekends as well as your own. It is REALLY cool when you suddenly see all your maintenance and moorage costs drop by a factor of four.

    BUT. . .some decisions must pass by majority vote. And if some of the partners are "cheap" or "gear hogs". . .then things don't necessarily go well. For example. . the sailboat currently needs new sails. An expense of several thousand. . .but it is vital to the operation of the boat. Two couples want to defer this expense. . .while the other two feel it is important to do now. How does that get resolved?

    Me? No way. I had ample opportunity to get in on BOTH partnerships. . . I honestly don't like to share, even though I am good friends with everyone involved. I don't like to mix "money" with "friends". I like to freeload when I go down to their boat. I like it when they freeload on my boat. Keeps it simple.
     
  8. HavingFun

    HavingFun New Member

    238
    Nov 14, 2006
    Grand Haven
    2005 SD220
    350 Mag Alpha
    2 years ago I saw ads for a place in Holland Michigan. I think its a club you join. I don't remember seeing the ads this year. I can't remember the name but I think this company has a few places in Florida.
     
  9. Chris R

    Chris R Member

    751
    Mar 17, 2008
    Bloomington, Il - formerly in Gig Harbor, WA
    In between boats, now. Former boat: 2008 340 DA
    8.1 Horizons w/V-drives
    http://www.mooringsfractional.com/fractionalownership.html

    Here is an "extreme" (IMO) example of the time share idea. I guess there is a market out there for this. Membership includes a captain and a chef. But, your membership only last 5 years.

    I guess I could see it if one is landlocked and wants a week-long vaction on a 78 foot yacht - and of course had the money.
     
  10. Kameroo

    Kameroo Member GOLD Sponsor

    678
    Feb 1, 2007
    Louisville, KY
    12' Kayaks
    Human
    My father always told me, "partners are good for two things, and dancing is one of them."

    Having said that, I've done several aircraft partnerships. It's a good way to pay 1/4 of the costs for some large asset that you'll only use 1/4 of the time. Boats are different for me. No way I'd want to share the kitchen, bath and master stateroom with three other families.
     
  11. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Good suggestions guys. I also think that boats are different from planes in terms of sharing. On the other hand we shouldn't forget that every situation is different and may be someone wants to get in to boating but doesn't know and scared to face all of the details of ownership as a single owner while not willing to settle for a smaller starter boat. So, I guess getting into partial ownership could be one of the options. I'm not sure if it's worth it and how much will you save, though.

    I think the best place to get more information on this is local boat shows and of course Google.
     
  12. MExcelsior

    MExcelsior Member

    482
    Oct 23, 2006
    Iowa
    2007 310 SeaRay DA
    Kohler
    Twin 6.2 MPI Bravo III
    I agree with Kameroo. Theoretically, this sounds great! Pragmatically and emotionally, it's sounds like a nightmare. For it to work, the person would have to everything would need to be spelled out and a long lists of "Dos and Don'ts" and procedures. The contract would be crazily complicated. Maintenance responsibilities, general separation of responsibilities, keeping fuel tank full, pets, kids, types and kinds of products, cleaning responsibilities, Insurance, whether it can be used for commercial rental purposes, limitations of usage, repair responsibilities, damage responsibilities, shared liability. Cleaning of Head!!!! I could swear the iPod was right here the last time we used the boat. Change of bedding, and the list goes on.......

    Call me old-fashioned, but our boat seems to me to be a direct extension of our home. It is far from a "vacation home" or "timeshare". There is a unique love for the vessel. If someone is scared to face the details of ownership, then arguably "renting" might be a viable option depending on the actual time on the boat.
     
  13. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
    I almost tried one out about 4 years ago.

    http://www.sailtime.com/member/power

    seemed like they had a decent system put together but I never tried it so I can't say if it works.
     
  14. tmhudson2

    tmhudson2 New Member

    885
    Aug 30, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Friends of ours were in a three-couple partnership owning a restored barge-houseboat on the French canal system. Despite the "equal" division of responsibilities spelled out in the partnership agreement, one guy ended up doing almost all of the maintenance and repair. He got tired of it, and the boat is for sale now.
     
  15. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    As a followup. . . I have a friend who is currently in that airplane 4-way I refered to above. He is now forming a 2-way partnership with someone to buy a 42 Sedan Bridge.

    Should be interesting to see how that works out.
     
  16. delayed gratification

    delayed gratification New Member

    33
    Sep 10, 2008
    Fort Lauderdale
    Intrepid 377 Walkaround 2009
    Triple 275 Mercury Verados
    A lot of valuable input for me. I have chartered and it generally works well. I ultimately want to own my own boat, but would only have limited tim e to use it until fully retired. I thought fractional ownership might be a good transition, but many valid points about shared resposibility would be a concern. Enforcement of responsibility could get ugly. It may be easier with friends, but would not want to risk the friendship. Continued chartering may be my best option for now, but would not be able to rent a large express cruiser. My other option is to fly to the boat, live aboard for about a month and then put it in dry storage until next visit. It sounds wasteful at first, but many boat owners don't spend more than 30-60 days total on their boats in one year. It would probably save some wear and tear and keep the boat in good shape for when I can use it as much as I want. Many thanks for all the good advice
     
  17. The W.A.V.E.

    The W.A.V.E. New Member

    174
    Mar 30, 2008
    New Buffalo, Mi
    340DA
    7.4l mpi
    I have seen programs similar to those listed in this thread. The best one I was pitched on was more of a lease. The pros were that in your monthly payment everything was included except fuel. That means that the organization maintained the boat, carried the insurance and in fact owned the boat.

    There are people out there that I feel this is a good fit. IMO I believe that most people on this board would not fit into the fractional ownership or leasing program described for the simple fact that it's just too sterile.

    Part of what gets most of us enthusiastic about boating is obviously all the great times with friends and family and the freedom away from real life that we can escape to at a moments noticed, but in contrast IMO it's the things that we sometimes complain about and sometimes cherish and enjoy as well. For example, the thread about polishing and waxing, you guys here have passion about your PC's and compounds, sounds crazy right? I do to, or maybe its the feeling you get right after a fresh bottom job and having the props digitally trued and balanced, man the boat just seems so smooth that first time out. I could go on and on, youplug in the reference that gets you going, this is what boat ownership is about. It all ours, we mess them up and then we fix them and in a nutshell, we love the good and even sometimes the not so good about owning our boats. Just my opinion and observation.
     
  18. delayed gratification

    delayed gratification New Member

    33
    Sep 10, 2008
    Fort Lauderdale
    Intrepid 377 Walkaround 2009
    Triple 275 Mercury Verados
    Well put. I'm sure there is a bonding experience with boats. Most of the owners I met enjoy the entire experience and lifestyle associated with ownership. You can't replicate that with charter or lease.
     

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