Boatingfool
New Member
Gary - Very Nice! :grin: Something on my list of things to do hopefully within the next year.
Four Suns AV upgrade
- Thread starter Four Suns
- Start date
mistercomputerman
Well-Known Member
- Jan 6, 2008
- 4,321
- Boat Info
- 410 Sundancer - 2001
- Engines
- Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
Looks great! Good work. How long did it take to do the job?
OK... I was expecting Frank C. to take the bait but he didn't... oh well.
Matt is right in that Bose is very good at marketing. If you mention Bose is some circles, it gets the same response as mentioning "Sea Ray" in a "Viking" forum. Bose has been very good at cutting OEM deals with major luxury brands as well and I know, for example, that the top end Mercedes Benz line uses Bose and it doesn't sound that bad. (As a side, I have a BMW with a Harmon Kardon system and it's a piece of crap).
I did do some research on speakers over the winter. At Matt's suggestion, I looked at Anthony Gallo speakers ( http://www.roundsound.com/ ) as they had the small form factor I was looking for:
I even went and bought a set of them and hooked them to the Niles amp going into a typical stateroom and a subwoofer. They sounded really really good. However.. and this is an important point... note that speaker mount. It's a ball-and-joint design that is held in by tightening a nut and the smooth ball surface doesn't move by friction in the joint. No matter how much I tightened the joint, it would still move it I picked up the mount and shook it around. This would work in a stationary house just fine but not work in a boat bouncing around as the speakers would all be moving. I even tried several different third party mounts and they all have the same basic smooth ball-and-joint but with different ways of tightening the connection.
The Bose mount is part number UB20.
http://www.crutchfield.com/g_15830/Speaker-Wall-Mounts.html?search=bose+ub20&tp=586
and this mount has a teeth and ratchet type of interface in the joint. Sorta like the VHF antenna mounts. Once the mount is in position and tightened down, it's not going to move anywhere in bouncing seas. So you ask "Just use the Bose mount on other speakers?" HA! You think that Bose would NOT use a proprietary screw/mount on their connection?
The Anthony Gallo speakers are now in my office and not the boat. I did buy different components like this and tested them out before settling on the final design in the boat so this project started back in September of 07.
The other issue was the 480 DB came with a Bose Lifestyle surround sound system in the salon with a second zone and amp piped up into the forward master stateroom. Because I built the system around the multi-zone Audio Authority AVAtrix, I did not have a need for a multi-zone amplifier and finding one that would do 5 zones and one surround sound zone and routing HD video was impossible. Plus... that was getting too complicated as I could do it with mono-block amps, etc. but good gosh... The Bose on the boat also doesn't sound that bad. I didn't want to have different looking speakers in different rooms so the speakers I bought for the other two staterooms match the ones in the salon and forward stateroom... Mount the subwoofers under the beds and it's an interesting experience.
So that's the story on Bose... I put my money where my mouth was and tested out various things but it came down to application suitability beyond just the "sound" which I know is bad when choosing speakers... but it worked.
I did look at some 12v based car components but didn't want to go there... The 480 DB is not a functional boat without the generator running so I'm not even going to fight that one.
The little nuances of this project ended up being mounts and cables. I have well over $2K just in those two things which I didn't really plan on. These things have to be "boat ready" in that cables will be run next to high-voltage lines and gizmos and everything has to be able to be sloshed around in big waves for hours on end without falling apart or moving or buzzing/rattling. If you want to get to know your boat well, run a bundle of Cat5 cables from the back of the boat to the staterooms in the front of the boat... not just run them either but make sure they are in wire loom and tie wrapped every few feet.
As far as the control of components go, each room has an IR eye in it. You can see the IR eye on the first picture I posted on the outside of the cabinet and to the left of the Bose Lifestyle system. The AVAtrix routes the IR commands from the staterooms/remote(s) to the components and works nicely. I have a Logitech Harmony remote I bought last year and it worked with all the things fine and switched as needed. I do, however, need to get a couple more remotes and am looking at that now.
With regards to how the system will be used, one has to remember we do some long cruises on the boat and have 4 kids. We also do watch TV late at night and all have different interests. The AppleTV has about 60 GB of music on it (everything from now to my music collection from the 70's/80's) and this allows everyone to watch/listen to what they want and not have me going "But some people think we are boating and you shouldn't watch Law & Order for a month."... Why? We are not glued to the TV by any means but it is something that keeps the peace for weeks on end... If I want to watch Jim Cramer act like an ass on CNBC, I should be able to... and I was just tired of watching TV on those crappy Panasonic 13" tube TV's with built in VCR in the stateroom. Here's a boat that had a Bose sound system in the forward stateroom and hooked to a 13" TV that has about the same curvature on the screen as a bowling ball... and video routed over "Channel 14" on the RF cable... blec.
Matt is right in that Bose is very good at marketing. If you mention Bose is some circles, it gets the same response as mentioning "Sea Ray" in a "Viking" forum. Bose has been very good at cutting OEM deals with major luxury brands as well and I know, for example, that the top end Mercedes Benz line uses Bose and it doesn't sound that bad. (As a side, I have a BMW with a Harmon Kardon system and it's a piece of crap).
I did do some research on speakers over the winter. At Matt's suggestion, I looked at Anthony Gallo speakers ( http://www.roundsound.com/ ) as they had the small form factor I was looking for:
I even went and bought a set of them and hooked them to the Niles amp going into a typical stateroom and a subwoofer. They sounded really really good. However.. and this is an important point... note that speaker mount. It's a ball-and-joint design that is held in by tightening a nut and the smooth ball surface doesn't move by friction in the joint. No matter how much I tightened the joint, it would still move it I picked up the mount and shook it around. This would work in a stationary house just fine but not work in a boat bouncing around as the speakers would all be moving. I even tried several different third party mounts and they all have the same basic smooth ball-and-joint but with different ways of tightening the connection.
The Bose mount is part number UB20.
http://www.crutchfield.com/g_15830/Speaker-Wall-Mounts.html?search=bose+ub20&tp=586
and this mount has a teeth and ratchet type of interface in the joint. Sorta like the VHF antenna mounts. Once the mount is in position and tightened down, it's not going to move anywhere in bouncing seas. So you ask "Just use the Bose mount on other speakers?" HA! You think that Bose would NOT use a proprietary screw/mount on their connection?
The Anthony Gallo speakers are now in my office and not the boat. I did buy different components like this and tested them out before settling on the final design in the boat so this project started back in September of 07.
The other issue was the 480 DB came with a Bose Lifestyle surround sound system in the salon with a second zone and amp piped up into the forward master stateroom. Because I built the system around the multi-zone Audio Authority AVAtrix, I did not have a need for a multi-zone amplifier and finding one that would do 5 zones and one surround sound zone and routing HD video was impossible. Plus... that was getting too complicated as I could do it with mono-block amps, etc. but good gosh... The Bose on the boat also doesn't sound that bad. I didn't want to have different looking speakers in different rooms so the speakers I bought for the other two staterooms match the ones in the salon and forward stateroom... Mount the subwoofers under the beds and it's an interesting experience.
So that's the story on Bose... I put my money where my mouth was and tested out various things but it came down to application suitability beyond just the "sound" which I know is bad when choosing speakers... but it worked.
I did look at some 12v based car components but didn't want to go there... The 480 DB is not a functional boat without the generator running so I'm not even going to fight that one.
The little nuances of this project ended up being mounts and cables. I have well over $2K just in those two things which I didn't really plan on. These things have to be "boat ready" in that cables will be run next to high-voltage lines and gizmos and everything has to be able to be sloshed around in big waves for hours on end without falling apart or moving or buzzing/rattling. If you want to get to know your boat well, run a bundle of Cat5 cables from the back of the boat to the staterooms in the front of the boat... not just run them either but make sure they are in wire loom and tie wrapped every few feet.
As far as the control of components go, each room has an IR eye in it. You can see the IR eye on the first picture I posted on the outside of the cabinet and to the left of the Bose Lifestyle system. The AVAtrix routes the IR commands from the staterooms/remote(s) to the components and works nicely. I have a Logitech Harmony remote I bought last year and it worked with all the things fine and switched as needed. I do, however, need to get a couple more remotes and am looking at that now.
With regards to how the system will be used, one has to remember we do some long cruises on the boat and have 4 kids. We also do watch TV late at night and all have different interests. The AppleTV has about 60 GB of music on it (everything from now to my music collection from the 70's/80's) and this allows everyone to watch/listen to what they want and not have me going "But some people think we are boating and you shouldn't watch Law & Order for a month."... Why? We are not glued to the TV by any means but it is something that keeps the peace for weeks on end... If I want to watch Jim Cramer act like an ass on CNBC, I should be able to... and I was just tired of watching TV on those crappy Panasonic 13" tube TV's with built in VCR in the stateroom. Here's a boat that had a Bose sound system in the forward stateroom and hooked to a 13" TV that has about the same curvature on the screen as a bowling ball... and video routed over "Channel 14" on the RF cable... blec.
Last edited:
- Nov 12, 2006
- 5,334
- Boat Info
- 1999 Sea Ray 330DA
Twin 7.4 MPI (310 propshaft HP) V-drives
- Engines
- Twin Mercury Marine marinized 7.4L L-29 V8s
Cast iron block w 4-bolt mains
Gary, your reputation proceeds you and I know bait when I see it.
Looks good. Glad it all works for you.
Best regards,
Frank
mrsrobinson
Well-Known Member
Thanks... I was about ready to give this boat away last week when I had to put a new alternator on it.
Here are a few "during construction" shots so you can see this was not for the faint of heart... also.. the BIG Sony made-from-plutonium TV that was removed got rid of that starboard list of mine.
and
The quality of some of the cable connectors was terrible.. My KVH had a loose power connection which explained some of the problems I've had for FIVE years.
So that was your TV I saw sitting at the trash cans last Saturday at Bluewater? The casing was cracked like someone has given it a good whack or two.
mrsrobinson
Well-Known Member
I had BOSE in my Mercedes 320 and the speakers blew very early. They never sounded that great IMHO. Also had BOSE in an Infinity and they never sounded great IMHO. Not sure what's in my Volvo S60 but they sound great and the bass/sub is very nice.
I have compared the BOSE Marine 6.5s to others and IMHO the BOSE are not that good..even WMs brand sounded better to me.
That was not my TV at Bluewater. I assume you are talking about the dork that dumped one at the end of D Dock? I disposed of mine properly... I dumped it out in the bay.
JUST KIDDING! I brought it home... The thing still works and is in good shape.
JUST KIDDING! I brought it home... The thing still works and is in good shape.
mrsrobinson
Well-Known Member
Not sure of his dorkness status, but I agree, a strange place to dump your TV....take it with you or throw it in a dumpster.
Nehalennia
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2007
- 10,006
- Boat Info
- 2001 310DA twin 350 MAGs, Westerbeke 4.5KW
- Engines
- Twin 350 MAG V-drives
Can you add some Black ABC Tubing with a Black RTV to stabilize it?
- Nov 12, 2006
- 5,334
- Boat Info
- 1999 Sea Ray 330DA
Twin 7.4 MPI (310 propshaft HP) V-drives
- Engines
- Twin Mercury Marine marinized 7.4L L-29 V8s
Cast iron block w 4-bolt mains
Walked away from the new Cadillac STS because it had blows -- I mean Bose speakers which sounded terrible. Not spending that kind of money to hate driving a car because the audio system bose. err blows.
On the other hand, the new Jaguar XF has Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers, which are amongst my favorites. I'll have to test drive one of those cars some day.
Best regards,
Frank C
Walz
New Member
- Mar 7, 2008
- 163
- Boat Info
- 1999 310 DA, radar, HDS-7 GenII
"Springer Time"
- Engines
- 350 MPI Inboards
A question for the group: The manufactures of marine stereos all claim that they have been specially made to withstand the marine environment. Things like stainless chassis, coated circuit boards, etc. I was wondering how non-marine components such as the BOSE Lifestyle system and most brands of TV's do on a boat long-term? I need to replace the old Clarion cassette unit on my boat and there are lots of nice "automotive" units I could use, but I have steered clear of those and just looked at "marine" radios. Any thoughts??
Thanks!
Thanks!
I think it depends on the environment. The inside of a 480 DB is not subject to being sprayed with saltwater and many of the components/appliances/electronics inside the boat are not "marine grade". Look at the TV's.... The wiring is all marine grade but the end points sure are not. My GFI's are from Home Depot. If I was mounting something outside in the cockpit or on the bridge, that's a different story because the stuff is in a tough environment. I would never mount any of the Bose Lifestyle things outside.
- Nov 12, 2006
- 5,334
- Boat Info
- 1999 Sea Ray 330DA
Twin 7.4 MPI (310 propshaft HP) V-drives
- Engines
- Twin Mercury Marine marinized 7.4L L-29 V8s
Cast iron block w 4-bolt mains
I had alpine auto audio (head unit, CD) and a couple ADS amps in my last boat. Since they were in the cabin, they were fine and gave many years of trouble-free service. The speaker out in the cockpit where marine speaker.
The main disadvantage is auto stuff is that you don't get wired remotes. The new Clarion wired remote on Just Ducky not only controls AM, FM, CD, CD Changer, Aux, and Sirius, but also displays data, too. Auto systems don't have that remote display.
Best regards,
Frank C
The main disadvantage is auto stuff is that you don't get wired remotes. The new Clarion wired remote on Just Ducky not only controls AM, FM, CD, CD Changer, Aux, and Sirius, but also displays data, too. Auto systems don't have that remote display.
Best regards,
Frank C
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I would speculate that inside of a reasonably sized and conditioned cabin, vibration and shock are more of an issue than corrosion. That's why you can't use solid romex electrical wire in a boat and need to use stranded marine wire (one reason anyway). I have seen people use regular household 120v wire and wire nuts which is... well.. really stupid.
tobnpr
New Member
I had an automotive Alpine installed on my last boat-in the dash with a gasketed, acrylic door/cover over it (commonly available) for something like 8 years. As long as you protect it, and the (back of the)chassis is mounted in a dry, well ventilated area it should be fine.
These work great:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|344|132903|320902|1064129&id=28138
These work great:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|344|132903|320902|1064129&id=28138
- Nov 12, 2006
- 5,334
- Boat Info
- 1999 Sea Ray 330DA
Twin 7.4 MPI (310 propshaft HP) V-drives
- Engines
- Twin Mercury Marine marinized 7.4L L-29 V8s
Cast iron block w 4-bolt mains
I don't know about that. Boats do bash around quite a bit, but have you ever ridden in one of those econoboxes? I remember getting stuck with a couple as rentals when I was traveling for business. After getting stuck with one of those pieces of crap in the mid-west -- that part of the country where after you land at the closest airport it's still a two freekin' hour drive to the client's site -- I started to do upgrades to premium/luxury on my own dime. Boats ride better than those sh**boxes.
Best regards,
Frank C
PS.
OK, second of honesty here. I buried the extra cost in the expense report. The accountants and travel drones weren't sharp enough to catch it.
fc3
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
Gary, you have got to download the new iphone/itouch 2.0 if for only the remote control application. you can use your iphone/itouch to control itunes and or appleTV from your itouch. movies, music etc... It communicates via wifi.
IT'S GREAT!!!
IT'S GREAT!!!
I found a problem with this AppleTV and putting it in a cabinet. This is the current set up I have on the 480:
You can see the AppleTV mounted down in the lower right corner cabinet towards the top. I'm not real crazy about this look and will probably redo it with a total face frame to incorporate the H21 DirecTV boxes when I get back from this trip.... which is good... because this thing needs cooling. The AppleTV gets *REALLY* HOT. I mean it gets so hot the little IR emitter bud melted off the front. Right now, I have to keep the cabinet door cracked open... I'm going to have to come up with a cooling solution for that lower cabinet area now.
Nothing is ever easy.
You can see the AppleTV mounted down in the lower right corner cabinet towards the top. I'm not real crazy about this look and will probably redo it with a total face frame to incorporate the H21 DirecTV boxes when I get back from this trip.... which is good... because this thing needs cooling. The AppleTV gets *REALLY* HOT. I mean it gets so hot the little IR emitter bud melted off the front. Right now, I have to keep the cabinet door cracked open... I'm going to have to come up with a cooling solution for that lower cabinet area now.
Nothing is ever easy.
Last edited:
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
Really, what the heck is making it so hot? is the hard drive constantly spinning?
Greg
Active Member
Gary,
How do you get the original TV out of there? There were 2 really really long screws inside the cabinet below the TV, but that didn't do it.
How do you get the original TV out of there? There were 2 really really long screws inside the cabinet below the TV, but that didn't do it.
