Financing Problems

[gstewart04]

In these tough times the buyer realy needs to be on there toes. I have just lost my boat because I trusted the dealer. Some dealers are so desperate to sell boats that they are changing the information sent to the bank to make sure it is financed. We had a brand new boat but wanted bigger, we did not qualify but the dealer changed the numbers submitted and 18 months later we lost it. So boat buyers learn from my mistake and realy look the paperwork over and if the boat costs over $100,000 have your family attorney look it over. You do not want to go threw what I just went threw:smt021:smt021

 

[Four Suns]

In these tough times the buyer realy needs to be on there toes. I have just lost my boat because I trusted the dealer. Some dealers are so desperate to sell boats that they are changing the information sent to the bank to make sure it is financed. We had a brand new boat but wanted bigger, we did not qualify but the dealer changed the numbers submitted and 18 months later we lost it. So boat buyers learn from my mistake and realy look the paperwork over and if the boat costs over $100,000 have your family attorney look it over. You do not want to go threw what I just went threw:smt021:smt021

A bank came and took it even though you were making the payments? I've never heard of such a thing...

 

[katricol]

Can you give us more info about this...some specifics ???

 

[HUMPH]

In these tough times the buyer realy needs to be on there toes. I have just lost my boat because I trusted the dealer. Some dealers are so desperate to sell boats that they are changing the information sent to the bank to make sure it is financed. We had a brand new boat but wanted bigger, we did not qualify but the dealer changed the numbers submitted and 18 months later we lost it. So boat buyers learn from my mistake and realy look the paperwork over and if the boat costs over $100,000 have your family attorney look it over. You do not want to go threw what I just went threw:smt021:smt021

So I assume when you state that they "changed the numbers" you mean your numbers as in your income? What we as a society need to remember, we are responsible for ourselves financially. I do know how easy it is to fall in love with a house, car, boat that you can't afford but we can't blame others when deep down during the transaction we know we will struggle to make ends meet.

A boat is a toy. Nothing but a toy and as much as we think we "need" one, there are other more important things we need to keep. I feel for you but maybe lesson learned?

All of that being said, take my house and leave my boat alone!

 

[gerryb]

to OP: interesting to see that your first post was about your dogs, the second about losing your boat...?

Aside: Not sure I would agree with an arbitrary dollar amount (you propose $100,000) as the benchmark for a close review of a legal document. Losing $90 would also sting, no?

 

[gstewart04]

the boat loan was up to date until we lost a job. In trying to work with the bank it was discovered that the information submitted to the bank was incorrect. The bank then called the note in from the dealer who had to repay the loan. We then worked a deal and gave the boat back. It was like the mgt meltdown with all those people were given loans when they realy could not afford them. A good dealer would have just said you don't qualify. I don't want anyone esle to go threw this that is the reason for the posting.

 

[HUMPH]

Sorry for your loss...

 

[Summer Fun II]

gstewart04, That really sucks, I'm glad i paid cash for my tug, They wanted me to fiance it but i said no way, No stinking bank is taking my boat away from me. :smt001

 

[TJM0901]

I'm sorry I have to really agree with 2K WINGIN' IT on this one. The whole reason this country is in a meltdown is because people just "claimed" to not understand what they were signing. I realize its a little different situation here but all the same. As soon as they said you didn't qualify it should have been a warming sign to yourself. It you were cutting it that close then you still should have asked yourself the difficult question.

I'm very sorry for your loss I really am. As a rule of thumb, you should try to have min of 50% equity in a depreciating asset (ALL TOYS) so at any time you have to pull the plug you actually have a nest egg sitting there not a liability on your hands.

With that said, you and your family can come out on my boat any time. Its a brotherhood. Best of luck.

 

[comsnark]

Wait. . .I am REALLY missing something here.

What do you mean "called the note in from the dealer who had to repay the loan". That implies to a layman like me that the Bank declared *FOUL* on the dealer, and excercised some punative clause. How does that affect you?

Or did this suddenly motivate the dealer to buy back your boat which you couldn't afford (now) because you were out of work? Or did the dealer repossess the boat because you were in default?

I take it that selling the boat on the open market wasn't an option. Were you upside down on the boat? Was the dealer going after your other assets (cars, houses) to make up the difference?

 

[The Bill Collector]

It sounds like loss of job created a past due / default situation on the loan.... In trying to work with the bank on the past due payments it was uncovered that the "dealer" cooked the books a little to get the deal to go through....
In that case the bank had "full recourse" against the dealer for a fraudulent application. Surrendering the vessel sounds painful but PRISON sounds worse..... Just a possibility and the names have been changed to protect the innocent...

 

[Kameroo]

As a rule of thumb, you should try to have min of 50% equity in a depreciating asset (ALL TOYS) so at any time you have to pull the plug you actually have a nest egg sitting there not a liability on your hands.

My depression-era grandfather used to tell me stuff like that, but it took the recent meltdownfor me to really appreciate where he was coming from. If everybody followed that advice, however, there would be a whole lot fewer boats out there, and my next boat (a Sea Ray again) would be much more expensive.

 

[tobnpr]

Sounds like Bill Collector got it right.
Rather than go to prison for loan fraud, the dealer agreed to buy the boat back and make the bank whole. Lender should have prosecuted and sent the scumbag to jail...now he'll just **** over another bank and borrower.

To the borrower.... sorry about your loss- BUT... you should have read what you signed!! You signed a fraudulent application. Lesson learned.

 

[270win]

I may not have the newest boat, the latest cars or biggest home...but what I do have is paid for. I had to learn that the hard way, lost a house a car and a truck...all of which I had no business buying to begin with. That was a life changing experience!

Best of luck to the OP. I hope the dealer covered everything you were liable for....

 

[bluebelly]

Sounds like Bill Collector got it right.
Rather than go to prison for loan fraud, the dealer agreed to buy the boat back and make the bank whole. Lender should have prosecuted and sent the scumbag to jail...now he'll just **** over another bank and borrower.

To the borrower.... sorry about your loss- BUT... you should have read what you signed!! You signed a fraudulent application. Lesson learned.

Even though you may read what you sign, it does not mean the dealer cannot change the credit application after you signed it and have left the dealership. There is little defense that customers have against this situation. When we are approved for a loan there is nothing that tells us to cross reference the criteria that was used by the bank for their decision and what you signed off on as your credit application.

To the original poster, you probably live in a state that will award triple damages in a case like this. You will have to show "measurable financial loss" which would be interest paid, insurance paid, slip fees, etc. A quick talk to an attorney will be worth your while. And don't think that only the dealer is necessarily who can be found at fault in a court of law, that bank can also be on the hook for lack of "reasonable underwriting". I have experience like this in the auto industry which is a very similar business in terms of "indirect lending". Sorry for your loss.

 

[mhtimber]

the boat loan was up to date until we lost a job. In trying to work with the bank it was discovered that the information submitted to the bank was incorrect. The bank then called the note in from the dealer who had to repay the loan. We then worked a deal and gave the boat back. It was like the mgt meltdown with all those people were given loans when they realy could not afford them. A good dealer would have just said you don't qualify. I don't want anyone esle to go threw this that is the reason for the posting.

Hey gstewart04, very sorry to hear about your ordeal, there's no easy way to feel good about what happened to you. Thanks also for being willing to share with us in hopes that it could help someone else avoid a similar situation.

In response to another reply here, of course we are all responsible for our own finances but missing that some information changed in the middle of the ream of paperwork that's involved with closing a large boat loan in no way insinuates willful negligence of such responsibility.

I am impressed and appreciative that this person was willing to share a painful personal experience as warning to others.

Thank you.
Jeff

 

[Uplate]

Interesting bit of info. I do not owe anything on my boat, but have been in the process of a refi for my home.

I am using BOA, of which I have had many accounts over many years. My credit score was 840 and my wife's was something like 820. I had to fax Tax returns for 07 and 08 to the tune of some 60 pages. I have never been so grilled in my life for a loan or refi. they are are looking for every possible thing you could imagine.

For a bank that got TARP $$, you would think they could relax a little....NOT!

 

[tobnpr]

Interesting bit of info. I do not owe anything on my boat, but have been in the process of a refi for my home.

I am using BOA, of which I have had many accounts over many years. My credit score was 840 and my wife's was something like 820. I had to fax Tax returns for 07 and 08 to the tune of some 60 pages. I have never been so grilled in my life for a loan or refi. they are are looking for every possible thing you could imagine.

For a bank that got TARP $$, you would think they could relax a little....NOT!

Good luck with BOA... lost my tax returns (corp and personal)...kept telling me they had everything, then asked for something else. Finally got an email that I was set for closing, then days later they had the balls to tell me that the commitment had expired (due to THEIR delays) and they needed to re-underwrite. I sent a nasty email back telling them what they could do with their money and closed the loan (same terms) with a broker two weeks later.

My sister-in-law was a senior loan officer with them and had to quit because of all their BS- including having customers having to walk away from the closing table.

Sorry for the hijack. Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

 

[Scottzzzy]

Even though you may read what you sign, it does not mean the dealer cannot change the credit application after you signed it and have left the dealership. There is little defense that customers have against this situation. When we are approved for a loan there is nothing that tells us to cross reference the criteria that was used by the bank for their decision and what you signed off on as your credit application.

To the original poster, you probably live in a state that will award triple damages in a case like this. You will have to show "measurable financial loss" which would be interest paid, insurance paid, slip fees, etc. A quick talk to an attorney will be worth your while. And don't think that only the dealer is necessarily who can be found at fault in a court of law, that bank can also be on the hook for lack of "reasonable underwriting". I have experience like this in the auto industry which is a very similar business in terms of "indirect lending". Sorry for your loss.

Georgia put in place some predatory lending laws just for this type of stuff. They would bust brokers making pay stubs and doing some really sketchy things to get people approved for things that would "normally" be out of their reach. I dare to say they did this so the brokers could make the fees and not so Mrs. Doe could have a bigger house. I would agree with Bluebelly, I might have a sit down with a lawyer if I found myself in this situation.:huh:

Sorry to hear about your situation but thank you for sharing it. Right now there are too many tough times to go around for a lot of us!:thumbsup:

 

[comsnark]

Even though you may read what you sign, it does not mean the dealer cannot change the credit application after you signed it and have left the dealership. There is little defense that customers have against this situation. When we are approved for a loan there is nothing that tells us to cross reference the criteria that was used by the bank for their decision and what you signed off on as your credit application.

To the original poster, you probably live in a state that will award triple damages in a case like this. You will have to show "measurable financial loss" which would be interest paid, insurance paid, slip fees, etc. A quick talk to an attorney will be worth your while. And don't think that only the dealer is necessarily who can be found at fault in a court of law, that bank can also be on the hook for lack of "reasonable underwriting". I have experience like this in the auto industry which is a very similar business in terms of "indirect lending". Sorry for your loss.

If the dealer can change an application after you sign it. . does that mean YOU can change an application after they sign it? :huh:

If you have documentation that disagrees with their documantation. . . oooohhh. That can be fun for a good lawyer.

This is why the dealer was probably in hot water. The OP was in hot water for something equally basic: not making the agreed payments. Hopefully, the OP's financial hit on the boat wasn't too big when the dust settled. But regardless: boats are very poor investments.