Feeling pretentious/snobby about boat brand/make

[mrsrobinson]

Few pics of the girl, and a 460 Sea Ray next to her, and my road toy. Sea trial/Survey tomorrow, hoping I have not jinxed myself.

 

[The Dark Side]

looks good, keep us posted and good luck.

 

[Brent Nutting]

Few pics of the girl, and a 460 Sea Ray next to her, and my road toy. Sea trial/Survey tomorrow, hoping I have not jinxed myself.

Congrats, nice looking boat.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Looks good. Good luck!

 

[Time Enhancer]

Would have , could have , should have etc. In my summation of the discussions being had. You will always be comparing that Wellcraft to the Formula.
I personally dont put Wellcraft at the same level as Sea Ray. I find that make to be of lessor value to Sea Ray. It sucks to wait to find the boat you truly have your mind set on but in the end I think you will appreciate it more and never compare. Took my wife and I two years in search of. Enjoyed the hunt.
Finally it was meant to be. I say ,dont give up on the hunt. Its out there.

 

[Golfman25]

Would have , could have , should have etc. In my summation of the discussions being had. You will always be comparing that Wellcraft to the Formula.
I personally dont put Wellcraft at the same level as Sea Ray. I find that make to be of lessor value to Sea Ray. It sucks to wait to find the boat you truly have your mind set on but in the end I think you will appreciate it more and never compare. Took my wife and I two years in search of. Enjoyed the hunt.
Finally it was meant to be. I say ,dont give up on the hunt. Its out there.

Except these days the hunt is more like getting your head bashed in.

 

[Time Enhancer]

Except these days the hunt is more like getting your head bashed in.

Found ours. Yes. It took alot of effort.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Would have , could have , should have etc. In my summation of the discussions being had. You will always be comparing that Wellcraft to the Formula.
I personally dont put Wellcraft at the same level as Sea Ray. I find that make to be of lessor value to Sea Ray. It sucks to wait to find the boat you truly have your mind set on but in the end I think you will appreciate it more and never compare. Took my wife and I two years in search of. Enjoyed the hunt.
Finally it was meant to be. I say ,dont give up on the hunt. Its out there.

I agree, and disagree. I've been looking for over a year and quickly approaching my second season boatless. I liked the Formula, but in the end I liked the Wellcraft equally, if not better. No regrets. And, I can pay cash for the Wellcraft, which feels very good. Things fell in line for this in my opinion.

I am not about to pay $100k+ for a 2002 Sea Ray 360 (there was one for sale one dock over when I looked at the Wellcraft) when I can get a larger boat I like equally, if not more, for under $80k, in this crazy sellers low inventory market. I am a river boater, not an ocean boater, the Wellcraft will suit me fine.

It may be a 1-2 year boat for me, it may be longer. I am not thinking about that right now. I could spend more time looking for the "perfect" boat and spend yet another year not on the water. At 54, I don't have a lot of years in front of me I feel very good about this purchase now.

I had a very brief "what are you doing spending that amount of cash on a boat for" moment last night, but it went away just as quick when I thought about being on the water again.

 

[Time Enhancer]

54 isnt old. Lets just get that right out there. I expect a ton of years ahead at 57. LOL

 

[Golfman25]

I agree, and disagree. I've been looking for over a year and quickly approaching my second season boatless. I liked the Formula, but in the end I liked the Wellcraft equally, if not better. No regrets. And, I can pay cash for the Wellcraft, which feels very good. Things fell in line for this in my opinion. I was always a cash buyer, but my bonus was significantly more this year, which made this a lot easier. All that happened at the same time I found the Wellcraft.

I am not about to pay $100k+ for a 2002 Sea Ray 360 (there was one for sale one dock over when I looked at the Wellcraft) when I can get a larger boat I like equally, if not more, for under $80k, in this crazy sellers low inventory market. I am a river boater, not an ocean boater, the Wellcraft will suit me fine.

It may be a 1-2 year boat for me, it may be longer. I am not thinking about that right now. I could spend more time looking for the "perfect" boat and spend yet another year not on the water. At 54, I don't have a lot of years in front of me I feel very good about this purchase now.

I had a very brief "what are you doing spending that amount of cash on a boat for" moment last night, but it went away just as quick when I thought about being on the water again.

I have been looking for a while as well. I have kept my old boat so I am still on the water. However, I have a unique situation with the Admiral who wants specific things but doesn't want to run around all over looking at boats. So I have been able to show her a few and have a good idea which specific models she'll accept. One thing that came out of it was the discovery that she wants something bigger than I do (cause she doesn't have to wash and wax it every year). I'll likely keep this one for a while -- only change if we move south and/or consider the loop or longer range cruising. Here's our line by line experience:
1) Fall 2019 -- survey, sea trial revealed a neglected boat. Broker was a tool and owner wouldn't budge on price to fix banged up props.
2) Spring 2020 -- right before covid. Lost out to another buyer.
3) Spring 2020 -- 2 potential options, then Covid hit.
4) Summer 2020 -- potential option 1, survey revealed major delamination in the deck. Deal fell thru. Option 2, was sold, found moisture, and sold again.
5) Rest of Summer/Fall 2020 -- boats either smelled like smoke, or where sold within hours of listing.
6) Winter 2021 -- while broker was getting a few mechanical questions answered for me, they received a full price, sight unseen offer.
7) Spring 2021 -- everything called on is sold, even though listed as available on websites. Had one guy jack me around and ended up selling to a young fellow who wasn't requiring a survey.

But on the plus side, major winter repair is finished on the current boat. The beer garden is officially open at the marina, and I'll be launching soon. Dog, Sonny, can't wait.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Completed sea trial/survey on the Wellcraft. Surveyors first impression was "nice boat for the age".

He could not find moisture anywhere, not even on the swim platform. A few small things like the sump pump was not working (been there done that), trim tabs did not work (looked low on fluid), few cabin light bulbs were out. etc.

Genny fired up and ran nice. It popped a few times when adding load, but did not shut down and would settle back down quickly. It did handle a full load the, up to 20. Not sure what the popping was about, sounded like a backfire almost.

When trying to get up on plane the starboard motor popped, and shut down. We could not get it restarted. Seller remembered that's the motor/fuel tank he accidentally almost ran empty recently because he did not understand the fuel gauges. He told me this when I first looked at the boat, it was listing pretty bad then. He put 220 gallons of fuel in that tank last week and the listing went away.

Back at the dock we pulled the fuel water separator. Not good, lots of brown and water. We turned the starboard fuel gauge off, switched to port, purge the fuel using a fuel pressure gauge to pull clean fuel thru to the rail from the port tank. Got clean fuel, replaced the fuel water separator and tried for a while but the engine still would not start.

Seller is going to talk to the marina mechanic. I suggested he pull the plugs to blow any water from the fuel out and have the injectors cleaned. I also think that fuel tank needs to be pumped out and cleaned.

Surveyor only charged me 1/2 price, even though he was on the boat for almost 5 hours trying to help diagnose as well.

I am not walking away, yet.

 

[douglee25]

Should be an easy fix. Hang in there!

 

[mrsrobinson]

Oil Reports came back:

Port engine:

GREG: Fuel dilution at 5.5% is enough contamination to indicate a fuel system issue, especially if the oil
level is rising. Sodium may be harmless oil additive, but without knowing what brand this is we can't say that
for certain. We left it marked, since sodium can potentially show contamination by seawater. Iron shows
heavy wear at steel parts like the cylinders and shafts, which may be related to the contamination. Tin is
typically a bronze alloy. No significant dirt or excess solids were present. For reference, Mercruiser 8.1L
universal averages are based on oil run for about 60 hours.

Starboard engine:

GREG: 4.0% fuel is less than what was in the port engine's sample, but this much is also high enough to
potentially show an issue. As in the port engine’s sample, sodium may show seawater contamination, but it
may also be harmless additive in this brand of oil. Note that iron is lower over on this side, which is
noteworthy since we typically expect twin engines to look similar in testing, and when they don't it can reveal
an issue in one of them. Elevated tin alone isn't usually concerning since it's typically an alloy in bronze.


And this is why we do our due diligence when buying boats

 

[mrsrobinson]

For those following along at home, I decided to pass on this boat. Just didn't feel right after the sea trial (attempted but failed) and survey.

 

[firecadet613]

Good call. I'd pass as well. Did you know how many hours on that oil?

 

[mrsrobinson]

Seller reported 10 - 12 hours.

I did not share that during compression checks I noticed all 16 plugs had a lot of oil on the threads as well. I was never comfortable with this.

 

[mrsrobinson]

For those following along at home:

I ended up rejecting the Wellcraft 3700 because of the starboard engine issue and fuel found in both motors in the oil analysis. The seller challenged the oil report, trying to say it was inconclusive with only 12 hours on the oil.

The seller recently contacted me to inform me he has completed all of the survey system repairs (a small list I shared with him since the survey was not completed) and to state the starboard engine issue has been resolved. They cleaned out the fuel tank, replaced a missing seal on the fuel cap, fogged the cylinders, turned the engine over to blow out any water, replaced the plugs and have run the boat 2x replacing the fuel/water separator after each run. He also acknowledged the boat has been sitting for 6+ months and he should have known about these issues prior to selling it.

I asked Blackstone Laboratories about the fuel %, since I did the pull on cold engines. They said even with cold engines the #'s were high, that they expect to see ~2% on cold engines.

Seller said I can come back to take new oil samples on warm engines if I'd like and take the boat for a cruise.

Some may ask why even buy the boat? There is literally nothing left on the market. I've been looking for 18 months, COVID has brought a lot of first time boat buyers to the market. I can wait, for the perfect boat, but while I wait I am not on the water. It could be 1-2 more years before the COVID buying settles down. Or, maybe this is the new norm with boating/boats.

I love the cockpit layout on this boat, may be my favorite ever. I am "meh" on the cabin. And, it just feels cheaper (fit and finish) is the only word I can think of, than my Regal and Sea Ray. I think looking at that 2005 37PC Formula hard top messed me up, I loved that boat, price ($95K) was right, and it was local, but there were negative reasons why the price was low. Good ones are going for $120k+ though, which is more than I want to spend on a boat right now.

If I buy the plan is to get a test ride, pull oil, wait for oil results, if good, finish survey/sea trial with surveyor and then make a decision.

 

[firecadet613]

Sounds like a solid plan and the seller is doing what he can.

I'm glad I'm not shopping in this market, that's for sure!

Crossing my fingers it works out for you!

 

[mrsrobinson]

@douglee25 reminded me the seller can change the oil. Yes, he can, but Blackstone will report this when they do a compare to the last test.

I always liked the seller, he seems honest. I do believe he made some assumptions about the engines before listing the boat for sale.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Seller reports the boat ran great yesterday on a 30+ minute cruise. He reports he dumped the fuel filters afterwards and just a very slight amount of water was in them, which was expected, but nowhere near what they were seeing previously after the marina sucked out the tank. He states the mechanic states this is normal because they cannot get all of the water out of the tank.

He does not accept the current oil analysis report that reported 5% and 4% fuel in the motors. He wants me to do another oil analysis after warming up the engines. I reminded him what Blackstone Laboratories said about cold oil and fuel, he disputes this.

Ugh