Engine Crack- Disagreement between Mechanic and Warranty Company

[mjjacobs]

Hi all,

I just bought my first Sea-Ray this summer. It's got twin Mercruiser 4.3 Alpha's. I brought it into my mechanic for winterization, and he noticed water in one of the engines. He found a crack, and he said he recognized this type of damage from a number of identical engines he'd serviced, and believes it was caused by an engine problem.

I've got the extended warranty through 2011 from Mercruiser (through their Brunswick protection group), and after filing the claim and sending in pictures, they are saying it is due to damage from freezing, which is not covered.

I run the boat exclusively in salt water, and brought it in in early December, when the temperature never went below 35 degrees, so it is nearly impossible that it was due to frozen water, but the warranty company sees it otherwise.

I was wondering if anyone here had a similar experience, and any advice for how I could impress upon Brunswick or prove that the damage was not caused by freezing. This is my first time dealing with a boat warranty issue, so any help from someone more experience in these sort of things would be incredibly appreciated.

As an aside, I know due to the recent cold snap a lot of people in areas down south that don't require winterization have been getting frozen/cracked engines, so I can understand why the warranty company would react like this. But my Sea-Ray really didn't have a freezing issue- it was barely after Thanksgiving in Long Island!

Thanks in advance for any tips. Hopefully it'll get me back on the water with some leftover gas money in my pocket as soon as spring rolls around.

Regards,
Joshua

 

[88 AmberRay]

Hi Joshua,

I also live on LI and you are correct about the weather up

here. If the engine was full of salt water, where it belongs

the freeze plug(s) would have popped out, not cracking the

engine block. And don't forget salt water freezes at 28° F

not at 32° F like fresh water

 

[twade36577]

Dude that really sucks. I had a warranty disagreement with Volvo on my previous boat. They admitted there was a problem with the engine but didn't repair it to the specs published in their own manuals. My lawyer told me that my only recourse was to take them to small claims court. That's when I decided to sell that piece of crap Monterey and buy a Sea Ray. My advice to you is to pull together all of your data proving your case and send a copy to a manager or someone who can actually do something for you. Tell them you plan to take them to small claims court if they do not honor the warranty. If you have the proof they will loose the case. Your dealer should also be helping you with this.

Brunswick and MarineMax are both in really bad shape financially right now. Look at their financials on Google. They are loosing money like crazy so of course they don't want to pay out warranty claims. I am really worried about both companies surviving this economic downturn. I doubt the taxpayers are going to have much appetite for bailing out boat manufacturers since boats are luxury items. If word gets out that Brunswick isn't honoring warranty claims then that will be another nail in the coffin. I know they make a lot of money selling warranties. I bought one because the business manager at MarineMax told me that if anything was wrong with the boat all I had to do was call them and they would take care of it. We'll see.

 

[kindredspirit]

Hi Joshua,

I also live on LI and you are correct about the weather up

here. If the engine was full of salt water, where it belongs

the freeze plug(s) would have popped out, not cracking the

engine block. And don't forget salt water freezes at 28° F

not at 32° F like fresh water

I don't agree with part of this post. "Freeze" plugs were not designed to protect engine blocks from freezing. They are holes left in the block during the casting process and nothing more. I have seen many blocks that cracked when water froze inside them and never pushed out a "freeze" plug. I'm not saying this happened to yours, only that freeze plugs will not protect your block if water froze inside it.

 

[JediJD]

I don't agree with part of this post. "Freeze" plugs were not designed to protect engine blocks from freezing. They are holes left in the block during the casting process and nothing more. I have seen many blocks that cracked when water froze inside them and never pushed out a "freeze" plug. I'm not saying this happened to yours, only that freeze plugs will not protect your block if water froze inside it.

+1. The condition of freeze plugs is not a reliable indicator of whether or not the coolant in the block was frozen. The Weather Channel though, is a different matter. If the boat never left the dock, and the dock never got below freezing, awfully tough to have a mini-Ice Age in an otherwise protected bilge. Unfortunately, you may not have the information necessary to prove your position without committing to tear the engine apart for replacement.

 

[billnpat]

Hi all,

I just bought my first Sea-Ray this summer. It's got twin Mercruiser 4.3 Alpha's. I brought it into my mechanic for winterization, and he noticed water in one of the engines. He found a crack, and he said he recognized this type of damage from a number of identical engines he'd serviced, and believes it was caused by an engine problem.

I've got the extended warranty through 2011 from Mercruiser (through their Brunswick protection group), and after filing the claim and sending in pictures, they are saying it is due to damage from freezing, which is not covered.

I run the boat exclusively in salt water, and brought it in in early December, when the temperature never went below 35 degrees, so it is nearly impossible that it was due to frozen water, but the warranty company sees it otherwise.

I was wondering if anyone here had a similar experience, and any advice for how I could impress upon Brunswick or prove that the damage was not caused by freezing. This is my first time dealing with a boat warranty issue, so any help from someone more experience in these sort of things would be incredibly appreciated.

As an aside, I know due to the recent cold snap a lot of people in areas down south that don't require winterization have been getting frozen/cracked engines, so I can understand why the warranty company would react like this. But my Sea-Ray really didn't have a freezing issue- it was barely after Thanksgiving in Long Island!

Thanks in advance for any tips. Hopefully it'll get me back on the water with some leftover gas money in my pocket as soon as spring rolls around.

Regards,
Joshua

What part of L.I.?? M.M.?? which one????
Did you have the LEGACY contract????

 

[tobnpr]

What does your mechanic say is the cause of failure, if not from freezing?

 

[Turtlesboat]

These engines just don't spontaneously crack. It got pretty cold here in November, at least cold enough for my marina to shut off the water so the pipes wouldn't crack.

Another source of water intrusion is the manifolds, risers, and elbows. If these haven't been replaced on your boat, they are overdue.

What exactly cracked?

Without more info, it's just throwing darts at a map.

 

[mjjacobs]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

I purchased the boat used in September, and the warranty was purchased new with the boat (from MarineMax, formerly Surfside3) and is transferrable to the new owner.

The engine block was the part that cracked. It is true that engine blocks don't spontaneously crack. However, sometimes they do crack for reasons other than freezing. I am not an expert on this, so I will let the diagnosis of my (very honest) mechanic speak for itself. He says he's seen these particular engines develop engine block cracks due to usage, and he's seen it a number of times. That is what I am basing it on.

Water intrusion from other sources is possible, but the risers, manifolds, and elbows were all replaced as part of its regular maintenance program (last year, I believe). For this reason my mechanic felt it unlikely. Even if the water did intrude for another reason, the likelihood of it freezing significantly enough to crack the engine block would seem to require sustained cold weather, which according to Weather.com's weather history, didn't occur here on the South Shore of Long Island.

As to proving things, the engine will be replaced, whether its at my expense or the warranty company's. Below is a picture of the crack.

I do appreciate all the help I'm getting here, but my initial question remains: What can I do (assuming that my mechanics theory is correct) to get Brunswick to change their mind?

Thanks,
Joshua

 

[Turtlesboat]

I think most warranty issues, the dealer goes to bat for the buyer to make sure they're covered. Without a dealer behind you, it's going to be tough to change their mind.

I had the same coverage as you (bought private, paid the $50 transfer fee) submitted 2 small claims and both were denied. I then realized that i just wasted $50 on the transfer fee.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Does your mechanic work for an official "Mercruiser Certified" shop? If so, he is your advocate. Sometimes the shop will have to contact Merc/Brunswick numerous times. Calling them yourself will be a waste of time. If he's positive it's from an internal part failure, it's on him to prove it to Merc.

I do wish you good luck, though!

 

[Go Aweigh2452]

Call the insurance company and ask them to have an inspector check it out and to have them speak to your mech. That should cover you. Make sure you are available to be on site when he/she does show up... Been there, done that and it works...

Inspectors are available as as freelance contractors for the insurance company so that is not a big deal. I actually had the insurance inspector fly out from VA to WA to check it out them selves once... Got my check in the mail shortly thereafter...

 

[hmonarch]

The risers, manifolds, and elbows were replaced last year on a 2005 as part of regular maintenance. That seems odd to me. That is a lot of work on a 4-5 year powerplant. There may have been some other reason for this work that could be related to your current problem. I would ask more questions about this work and why it was required.

 

[ghuskin]

What were the results of the mechanical survey that was performed when you purchased the boat?

 

[Ididntdoit]

How do you know the problem did not exist BEFORE you bought the boat - if the oil was fresh and the boat hadn't been run much even oil samples probably would not have shown the problem, much less the survey - was the boat a repo? - are there service records? did a marina/merc tech winterize it every year or the PO? - I feel for you, this really stinks - but its probably been cracked for some time

 

[Turtlesboat]

The risers, manifolds, and elbows were replaced last year on a 2005 as part of regular maintenance. That seems odd to me. That is a lot of work on a 4-5 year powerplant. There may have been some other reason for this work that could be related to your current problem. I would ask more questions about this work and why it was required.

Not odd, that's just right. You've got about 5 years on them.

 

[tdappleman]

Not odd, that's just right. You've got about 5 years on them.

Agreed - this would just confirm what appears to be a positive maintenance schedule. I think you'd typically see a situation where the owner would wait for failure to replace. Is the engine crack evaluation work being done at a dealer?

 

[rondds]

Not sure if these engines are FWC, but if they are, replacing manifolds after 5 yrs seems premature.

 

[Turtlesboat]

maybe manifolds, but risers and elbows will still need to be replaced.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Doing a quick google on the engines, I couldn't find anything about a problem with them cracking due to normal use. All of the problems seemed to be from improper winterization, and overheating.