Electrical cords in the Water

[Hampton]

I dock in a salt water slip near the Gulf. Our dock manager is extremely weak. I've taken it upon myself to walk the docks weekly to clean up problems such as broken lines, poor tie jobs, and cords in the water.

Today, I found a 30 amp extension cord connection secured via line below the water line. It was plugged in and the cb was on - it had power. I switched the power off, pulled it out, cut it free, and routed it on the deck of the sailboat in a manner that would keep it out of the water. When I disconnected the junction, I found melted/burned plastic inside, so I tied the junction in a knot and dangled it off the bow of the boat over the dock where the captain (small letters on purpose) could find what he had going. I left the breaker off too.

Obviously, this is bad for everyone at the marina. My question today is, do I have a leg to stand on correcting people for dangling power cords from the dock into the water and then up to their boats? I'm not talking about bare connections, but sealed cords. My understanding is that this creates current and destroys the metal from boats in the water.

Opinions/expert advice?

 

[fwebster]

Sorry, but you have no legal leg to stand on with respect to other tenants. But more on that later........

There is a lease agreement between the land owner and the lessee or tenant. There is typically a dockmaster or manager who is employed by or serves voluntarily and is the agent of the lessor. That lease should spell out the rules and procedures that the lessee is to abide by. If the document isn't specific, then the dockmaster has his hands tied to some degree. However, if the documents are weak, most dockmasters worth their salt will make it up on the run based on their experience and common sense then instruct the tenants or boat operators accordingly. The leverege here is between the lessor and his agent and the tenant based upon the lease terms. Unfortunately, right or wrong, you as another tenant have no power to enforce compliance with lease terms.

I usually don't have a problem explaining the "facts of life" to guys doing unsafe things or conducting themselves in a discourteous manner. Try explaining the right way in calm reserved tones and explain why first. If that doesn't work, I usually hand the jerk a piece of paper and ask him for the name and address of his first born and tell him I'm going to hold him responsible for any damage I incur. It usually doesn't get that far, but our enviornment is a really family friendly place that operates more like extended family than a bunch of tenants.

 

[Hampton]

Frank,

I didn't make my point clear. As a relatively high ranking officer on a military installation, I have a pretty strong legal arm to ensure compliance. That is not my goal.

What I meant to ask is, does it do any harm, or does it just seem stupid to dangle electrical cords in the water?

 

[Bridog]

Despite trying to keep our shore power cord dry sometimes with the changes in tides and movement of the boat the cord sometimes dip into the water.

 

[tobnpr]

The cords themselves are heavily insulated. So are the individual conductors inside them. Unless the cord is damaged- read cut- there would be no issues.
If you disconnected power from MY boat while tied to the dock, I don't care if you're a friggin' four star general- we'd have a "talk".

 

[Hampton]

If I were a friggin' four star general, and your junction of your two cords was in the water dumping the governments electricity into the ocean and creating an electrical safety issue and destroying surrounding boats, you're right, we'd have a talk, and you'd be doing all of the listening.

 

[Hampton]

But seriously, doesn't it create a current like a magnet or electrical motor or something?

 

[Thunder_SS]

I have a bit of electrical background, as I am an Account Manager for a electrical wholesaler.

I am pretty sure the insulation on the wire is probably NOT water but rather "moisture resistant", as in wet location, for just being by the lake on a dock. I am sure that the cord should be plugged into a GFCI outlet, so if there was a current leak, the outlet would kick off.

But there should not be any current at all in the water directly unless the cord end or plug is in the water. Then your GFCI outlet would kick off for sure!!

 

[Hampton]

But there should not be any current at all in the water directly unless the cord end or plug is in the water. Then your GFCI outlet would kick off for sure!!

Thank you. We have had two reports in the last month of the end being in the water and nothing tripping. I don't think we have GFCI outlets for our 30 amp cords. The ends get burned and distorted. I can't believe it actually occurs in the water, but who knows? I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

 

[Four Suns]

I don't know about the cord you unplugged, but I believe mine is a white PVC jacket. Additionally, the 6 gauge wires on mine are insulated as well. I'm not sure I see what your issue is with a cord that gets in the water as long as there are no junctions/damaged cord. There is no secret magnetism and electron flow going through the insulation. Sometimes the tidal flow is such there is no way to stop the cord from hitting the water. If anything, it craps up the cord with slime and stuff.

Are you in a government/military owned marina? If not, I think you are stepping way over the line on taking it upon yourself unplugging someone's boat when you don't even understand the physics on why you did it. What if the batteries go dead and the bilge pumps don't turn on and the boat sinks? That's gonna be your baby... "Yes judge, I unplugged the boat because I'm an officer in the military and I thought I would take it on myself to correct a non-problem. Sorry about the boat sinking." I'd be pissed if someone unplugged my boat.

 

[Hampton]

Gary,

I'm not that way. It is a military marina. It would be irresponsible and negligent of me to leave unsafe electrical hazards be, military or not, but even worse in my position in the military. The junction of the cord and the extension cord was in the water. It was draining huge amounts of electricity and the cord was burned and distorted. My original goal was to get the ends out of the water and then hook it back up, but it was burned beyond use. It had already stopped powering the boat. I had others assist me in remedying the situation.

I'm just trying to learn what is ok and what is not. I know that leaving the bare ends in the ocean is not. Also, I do what I can to help others who aren't down there as often, as I stated in the first post - Re-tying boats that are tearing themselves up on the docks, replacing worn lines... We have boat owners deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. We help eachother out.

If there was a problem with drooping cords in the water, I wanted to learn about it. It's hard to justify at floating docks, but if there's no harm, then I'll just consider it bad housekeeping. I'll continue to re-route cords with ends in the water.

 

[Hampton]

"Yes judge, I unplugged the boat because I'm an officer in the military and I thought I would take it on myself to correct a non-problem. Sorry about the boat sinking." I'd be pissed if someone unplugged my boat.

Gary,

Reading that makes me sick. Please read the details before being so damn condescending.

 

[Four Suns]

If the junction was in the water, that's bad.

As long as a cord has insulation designed for water contact (like a marine shore power cord), nothing magical happens when it's in the water. The shore power on our floating docks comes out of a sea wall and runs under the docks to the power towers and at high tide, those cables are ALL underwater.

The way I am in my slip (at a floating dock), I have to keep the cord tight to keep it out of the water. The dockmaster always comes by and lets it out a little saying he doesn't want me straining the power tower. It then goes in the water a little. I need to get one of those ugly things to put in a fish rod holder to keep the cord higher. They are just so ugly though.

 

[Hampton]

If the junction was in the water, that's bad.

As long as a cord has insulation designed for water contact (like a marine shore power cord), nothing magical happens when it's in the water. The shore power on our floating docks comes out of a sea wall and runs under the docks to the power towers and at high tide, those cables are ALL underwater.

The way I am in my slip (at a floating dock), I have to keep the cord tight to keep it out of the water. The dockmaster always comes by and lets it out a little saying he doesn't want me straining the power tower. It then goes in the water a little. I need to get one of those ugly things to put in a fish rod holder to keep the cord higher. They are just so ugly though.

I can see how that can happen. I'm not some rank-wearing idiot running around making people do things my way. I am the extreme opposite. But, if it were a problem, I would be there to correct it for the good of everyone, and then let them know how to do business better (in a cordial manner).

 

[penbroke]

A cord that droops in the water is is best avoided but should not be a problem if it is in good condition.

A junction in the water is a completly different matter. Beyond the obvious electrocution hazard for anyone who might fall in the water or dip a foot in it will greatly add to electrolysis and corrosion problems for nearby boats. This condition is not tolerable under any circumstances in my opinion.

That being said, I'd be pissed if someone unplugged my boat without telling me. If there is a situation that needs immediate attention and I'm not there and you can fix it, please fix it. I thank you in advance. If the fix can potentially cause other problems you can't just walk away. The owner needs to be notified or the dockmaster needs to take over the responsibility to monitor the situation and contact the owner.


Frank

 

[gerryb]

I agree with Frank(Penbroke) completely. I also walk the docks from time to time and just check lines and fenders. Many times I've helped save a boat or the dock from damage.. from loose spring lines most commonly... where the swim platform ends-up banging the sh$t out of the wooden dock causing damage to both. If I saw an electric junction/connection in the water, I probably would try to get it out and secure it above water. Not the line itself however.

 

[dpvandy01]

A If the fix can potentially cause other problems you can't just walk away. The owner needs to be notified or the dockmaster needs to take over the responsibility to monitor the situation and contact the owner.


Frank

The first rule is due no harm in an attempt to help.. I am also at my dock far more often than my dock mates and I spend a good deal of time looking after others' boats, but beyond the easy suff (pushing the Ford Country Squire sized log past their boat) I always notify the dock kids at a minimum and if more seroius, I contact the marina owner. Good faith efforts to help are just that, attempts to help and are usually welcomed but you never know how your efforts might be interpreted. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Woody]

As a relatively high ranking officer on a military installation why don't you address the real problem and light a fire under the dock managers a$$. It sounds like you feel he and his staff? should be doing the things you are doing. Start teaching him and if he doesn't appreciate constructive critisim from you perhaps he will think different when he gets it from his superior.

 

[NorCal Boater]

As a relatively high ranking officer on a military installation why don't you address the real problem and light a fire under the dock managers a$$. It sounds like you feel he and his staff? should be doing the things you are doing. Start teaching him and if he doesn't appreciate constructive critisim from you perhaps he will think different when he gets it from his superior.

This is the first answer anybody has made that makes any real sense. :smt038 HOO-RAH

 

[Thunder_SS]

The 2005 NEC now includes GFCI requirements for the following installations:

• 547.5(G) Agricultural Buildings
• 525.23 Carnivals, Circuses, and Fairs
• 511.12 Commercial Garages
• 210.8(A) Dwelling Units
• 424.44(G) Electric Space Heating Cables
• 620.23, 620.85 Elevators and Escalators
• 680.51(A), 680.56(A), 680.57 Fountains
• 517.20(A) Healthcare Facilities
• 680.71 Hydromassage Bathtubs
• 555.19 Marinas and Boatyards
• 406.3(D)(2), (3) Receptacle Replacement
• 680.43, 680.44 Spas and Hot Tubs
• 680.22(A), 680.23, 680.27 Swimming Pools, Permanent
• 680.32 Swimming Pools, Storable
• 527.6 Temporary Installations
• 680.62 Therapeutic Tubs

Of course the 08 edition of NEC is out now, but I do not believe alot of the states will not adopt it until Jan. 2009.