Effort/Cost to replace Tides shaft seals?

yobub

yobub

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2016
952
Northern Illinois
Boat Info
1998 400 Sundancer
Engines
Cat 3116's
I need to have my Tides Shaft Seals replaced. Apparently no spare seal on the shafts. Skipper Buds says it is 8-10 hours per side.

'98 400DA, ZF HSW 800 V1.

I'm not at the boat and won't be until launch in April, so I can't evaluate anything myself or do anything myself. Boat is at their storage, so no real overhead for them.

Is 8-10 hours per side reasonable? They quoted parts at $50 each side or something like that.
 
yobub said:
I need to have my Tides Shaft Seals replaced. Apparently no spare seal on the shafts. Skipper Buds says it is 8-10 hours per side.

'98 400DA, ZF HSW 800 V1.

I'm not at the boat and won't be until launch in April, so I can't evaluate anything myself or do anything myself. Boat is at their storage, so no real overhead for them.

Is 8-10 hours per side reasonable? They quoted parts at $50 each side or something like that.
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I would say that is safe for the person doing the work because they don’t know how long or how difficult it will be to detach the transmission coupler plate from the shaft so they can pull the shaft out. It took me many tries and different methods to finally break mine loose in the starboard side, but the port side separated in five minutes.

that being said, a fully equipped yard should have all of the different tools on hand and ideally a hydraulic press to make quick work of getting the coupling off
 
Just some quick napkin math, at $125 an hour comes out to $2k-$3k total. Not sure what their rate is, but that doesn't sound unreasonable.

When I bought our boat, one Tides needed replacing and I had the PO do it before closing. I think it was $2k for the one side, done in the Tampa area (but the boat had to be hauled and blocked). In retrospect, I should have taken the cash and had both sides done.
 
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That's too much IMO. I replaced one at the start of last season since I pulled a shaft to get it straightened.

The seal itself is roughly $50, but for what a new assembly costs I just bought the entire assembly and have a spare onboard for the other side. Space was real limited with my v-drives, but I was able to get it done.

Once the shaft is out it's just a few minutes to take the old out, replace the seal and reinstall. Taking the shaft out is the variable - it could take some time. The one I had removed came out easily - the other one they couldn't get out (said they would have to cut it). I left that seal alone since it's not leaking.

I was right at 8 hours labor for them to remove both props, one shaft, replace both cutlass bearings (one strut had to be removed from the boat and the cutlass pressed out on a bench - and that is included in the 8 hours) and reinstalling the strut / props.
 
I have PSS and they needed to be replaced. I figured since the couplers, shafts, props were all going to the prop shop for balancing, I was going to do the cutlass bearings too. I know, not the answer you are looking for but if these other items haven't been done you might want to think about it ? The last thing we want to do is pay labor 2X.
 
While on the topic for Tides Seal, looks like my starboard side might have just given up the ghost (of course right after I had the boat out of the water for a bunch of below waterline work and didn't even think about the shaft seals Grrrr).

Doesn't leak a drop sitting in the slip, but once I start the engine, water is pouring out with the system under pressure. Typical of a failed lip seal or is there any adjustment to be made?
 
Had a drip on the starboard seal, but with the V-drives, I couldn't get at the spare seal. The tranny on that side died, so had to pull engine & tranny to replace. Then had new tide seal I stalled.
Total job creep!
 
dtfeld said:
While on the topic for Tides Seal, looks like my starboard side might have just given up the ghost (of course right after I had the boat out of the water for a bunch of below waterline work and didn't even think about the shaft seals Grrrr).

Doesn't leak a drop sitting in the slip, but once I start the engine, water is pouring out with the system under pressure. Typical of a failed lip seal or is there any adjustment to be made?
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Is it through the shaft seal or somewhere else in the housing?

wont make much of a difference since you’ll need to do the work either way, but you could disconnect the water line and cap it then start it in the slip to see if it’s a cracked housing or just a bad seal. Don’t run the boat like that though
 
Strecker25 said:
Is it through the shaft seal or somewhere else in the housing?

wont make much of a difference since you’ll need to do the work either way, but you could disconnect the water line and cap it then start it in the slip to see if it’s a cracked housing or just a bad seal. Don’t run the boat like that though
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Don't know, but just noticed it yesterday right as I was leaving. I shot a quick video. I'll see if I can post it or a picture.
 
Just got back. Rocking it back and forth got a stream of water flowing in. What ever is wrong, it's gotta be fixed, so I'll have a quote Monday or Tuesday for comparison.
 
dtfeld said:
Just got back. Rocking it back and forth got a stream of water flowing in. What ever is wrong, it's gotta be fixed, so I'll have a quote Monday or Tuesday for comparison.
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damn sorry to hear that after all your work. I did my starboard seals last year but not the port since I had that driveline apart. Now you’ve got me worried, I might do the port before launch. I even have the seals on hand already
 
Strecker25 said:
damn sorry to hear that after all your work. I did my starboard seals last year but not the port since I had that driveline apart. Now you’ve got me worried, I might do the port before launch. I even have the seals on hand already
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A big part of the job will be hauling and blocking it up. Might as well change them and add a spare....parts are cheap
 
Decided to stick with the Tides, but now the service advisor now says that they can't put a spare seal on because they can't get it to fit. He also said not to bother because they can never change them without pulling the shaft anyway.

I won't be at the boat until launch day so I can't verify.

Any of you diesel 400 DA guys have a spare Tides on your boat or know whether it should fit?
 
yobub said:
Decided to stick with the Tides, but now the service advisor now says that they can't put a spare seal on because they can't get it to fit. He also said not to bother because they can never change them without pulling the shaft anyway.

I won't be at the boat until launch day so I can't verify.

Any of you diesel 400 DA guys have a spare Tides on your boat or know whether it should fit?
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I would beg to differ with your "service adviser". I had spares on my 400DA and I had to change a seal in the Bahamas on my 400DA. Not saying it is easy or pleasant, but it can be done. I learned to have a seal change tool kit which had some specialty things like a right-angle Phillips ratcheting screwdriver. sharp awl, long handled nippers, a hose removal tool, and some caplugs that fit over the water fittings.
 
ttmott said:
I would beg to differ with your "service adviser". I had spares on my 400DA and I had to change a seal in the Bahamas on my 400DA. Not saying it is easy or pleasant, but it can be done. I learned to have a seal change tool kit which had some specialty things like a right-angle Phillips ratcheting screwdriver. sharp awl, long handled nippers, a hose removal tool, and some caplugs that fit over the water fittings.
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Thanks Tom, that's why I asked. Since I'm not near the boat I can't look for myself, so I need to give him some guidance. They used to be a Sea Ray dealer and certainly see plenty of these boats, but I think they frequently try to take the easy way out (while still charging me for the hard way).
 
I spoke with Tides this morning, and they are recommending a complete new unit for me. My yard was ball-parking $800-$900 in labor. Full new unit and spare with carrier was $600 from General Propeller.

As far as a spare, they are only about 1” thick and I thought I saw a drawing showing you need about 3” minimum on the shaft to accommodate one.

In my 410, there is plenty of room for a spare, and my port has a spare installed.

D62FAE9F-2467-4DD5-92FB-75EE6C29B9CB.png
 
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dtfeld said:
I spoke with Tides this morning, and they are recommending a complete new unit for me. My yard was ball-parking $800-$900 in labor. Full new unit and spare with carrier was $600 from General Propeller.

As far as a spare, they are only about 1” thick and I thought I saw a drawing showing you need about 3” minimum on the shaft to accommodate one.

In my 410, there is plenty of room for a spare, and my port has a spare installed.

View attachment 121296
Click to expand...

Shop around. I found the best price for mine was from https://citimarinestore.com/ and it came drop shipped from Tides. I have v-drives with no room for a spare, so I bit the bullet and bought a whole new unit while I had the shaft out...and bought a spare to keep on board for when the starboard side goes.
 
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