Docking with twin IOs

[Seevee]

Need help in docking with twin IOs, no bow or stern thruster. I have a 280 Sundancer with twin 4.3s.

[FONT=verdana, geneva]Docking from the upwind side is fairly easy, need help with the downwind side, especial when there's another boat downwind from me and I can't afford to make a mistake and get blown into him. And I want to do this backing in, but need skills bow in, too. [/FONT]

I've done a bunch of practice.

I back in.... into the wind as best I can. So if the wind is 90 degrees to the dock, I'm at an angle, with the stern into the wind but not straight in (as I wouldn't have the space to maneuver that way).

[FONT=verdana, geneva]I use both engines to back in and I'm thinking the goal is to get the stern corner of the boat close enough to throw a line and secure off, after which I'd put it in forward to bring the bow into the wind to at least tie down mid point.[/FONT]

What happens is by the time I get the stern corner close enough to toss a line, I'm loosing the bow downwind and too close to other boats.

I've even had trouble with this technique when I had a bow thruster in my 31, it wasn't powerful enough.

Where am I going wrong? And other techniques that work?

Also, would like to explore the bow in technique.

Thanks for your help.

 

[eweise]

If the wind is bad, depending on the wind direction, I put the bow or stern in first and tie off then use the engines to bring the opposite end around.

 

[Jeremygavin]

When I am in this position to the wind backing into a slip trying to keep from losing the bow I put the downwind engine in forward and the upwind engine in reverse. With my 340da, the bow is long enough that this usually the keeps the bow in the same place depending on how strong the wind is. Sometime I have to take the downwind engine out of gear if it is pushing the bow upwind too far but most of the time this holds it steady. I can use the upwind engine to control my speed backing into the slip. When I am doing this maneuver I use the steering wheel to help pull the stern in the direction I want it to go. It takes time to master but with time and practice it is doable.

 

[Gofirstclass]

With my boat and with prior boats (330 Dancer, etc.) I would approach the slip with the bow heading into the slip. I would let the wind blow me backwards down the fairway, using the shifters to slow my speed going backwards and to keep the boat positioned where I wanted it. When I got the stern of the boat about midway across the slip (still being blown slowly backward) I'd put whichever engine I needed into forward and give it just a bit of gas. That stops the reverse motion and at the same time brings the stern into the slip. The whole thing for me was to control the speed the boat was being blown downwind.

At that point the bow is going to start being blown across the slip and it's time to get both engines into reverse and give a bit of gas to speed up the backing.

The wind can be your friend if you figure out ahead of time what it's going to do to your boat, and then let it help you.

Does that make sense? It does to me but then, I'm on my second margarita! Happy Saturday and good luck.

 

[islandhopper00]

My opinion or 2 cents are...

Docking is all about timing and momentum. You need to be ready to act to a situation, not react. If you operate in a reactive mode, docking will forever be a nightmare. Practice in your mind, what will happen, be ready for what comes next.
Going against what most give as advise, "go no faster than you want to hit the dock...."
Sometimes slow is not to your advantage. A boat is dynamic in the water, in that your boat goes in the direction of the strongest influence. Be it the wind, current, or the thrust off your props.
I single hand all the time, so planning my docking is something I always do. Specially in a new to me marina. Fenders are your friend, and lines on the cleats ready to go, are a must. By the way, I learned to single hand a 52ft sailboat......

I read you try to get your stern line made first. I most times get my mid cleat tied off. Then your engine has a chance to either push or pull you to the dock, using a pivot point in the middle. If you go to a dry stack marina and watch the hands moving boats to the fork truck, you will see them use the mid cleat to move the boat, at least at my marina that is what they do.
As you said in the beginning, practice is the best way to learn. But, that only helps you in your marina. Learn your boat and how it acts around the docks, and then you won't be surprised when something happens.

 

[Seevee]

When I am in this position to the wind backing into a slip trying to keep from losing the bow I put the downwind engine in forward and the upwind engine in reverse. With my 340da, the bow is long enough that this usually the keeps the bow in the same place depending on how strong the wind is. Sometime I have to take the downwind engine out of gear if it is pushing the bow upwind too far but most of the time this holds it steady. I can use the upwind engine to control my speed backing into the slip. When I am doing this maneuver I use the steering wheel to help pull the stern in the direction I want it to go. It takes time to master but with time and practice it is doable.

I've tried that. Perhaps I need more practice to keep from loosing the bow to the wind. The downwind engine in forward isn't enough to handle ~10kt unless I use some power, and with the upwind engine in reverse, it pulls the stern away from the dock.

perhaps I should turn the wheel so the reverse engine heads more into the wind..... sounds like it will work, I'll try it.

Thx

 

[Seevee]

With my boat and with prior boats (330 Dancer, etc.) I would approach the slip with the bow heading into the slip. I would let the wind blow me backwards down the fairway, using the shifters to slow my speed going backwards and to keep the boat positioned where I wanted it. When I got the stern of the boat about midway across the slip (still being blown slowly backward) I'd put whichever engine I needed into forward and give it just a bit of gas. That stops the reverse motion and at the same time brings the stern into the slip. The whole thing for me was to control the speed the boat was being blown downwind.

At that point the bow is going to start being blown across the slip and it's time to get both engines into reverse and give a bit of gas to speed up the backing.

The wind can be your friend if you figure out ahead of time what it's going to do to your boat, and then let it help you.

Does that make sense? It does to me but then, I'm on my second margarita! Happy Saturday and good luck.

I'm a bit confused with your method. With the bow heading in, you need to make a complete 180 to get the stern in. And I'd guess it would blow you sideways, not backward. (I'm trying to master cross winds, not straight in or out).

Can you elaborate? Thx!

 

[Jeremygavin]

I have found with stern drives in a large cruiser using the steering wheel to help vector the thrust is a must in some situations to get the boat to move the way I want it to.

 

[Stray Cat]

I agree with post 8 above. I use my steering wheel and the boat responds more quickly than just messing with the shifters. How wide is the slip your backing into?

 

[Madifonzo]

To help make docking easier I also recommend a dock wheel. Makes pivoting around a dock corner much less stressful...especially if the slip is tight with another neighbor.

 

[Seevee]

To help make docking easier I also recommend a dock wheel. Makes pivoting around a dock corner much less stressful...especially if the slip is tight with another neighbor.

What's a dock wheel? Probably know what it is, but never heard of it.

 

[Seevee]

I agree with post 8 above. I use my steering wheel and the boat responds more quickly than just messing with the shifters. How wide is the slip your backing into?

My home slip is not an issue because no other boats to hit, and it's straight in. At some places I go to, could be ~15 ft wide, so I'd only have ~3 feet each side. In a stiff crossing, the only way I would go in is if I could secure a line on the end of the dock at my stern and be able to power the boat straight with forward on the opposite engine.... and even then, I'd be very nervous.

Usually I have the next slip empty, or a much wider option.

 

[FastMarkA]

Dock wheel: http://bfy.tw/552L

Without a thruster/axius, you really need to think about how the bow is going to respond with the wind, and make sure you set up your approach to consider that.

You can always move the aft quite well since the power is there, but if you haven't set up the bow properly, you're not going to have much luck.

 

[Gofirstclass]

With my boat and with prior boats (330 Dancer, etc.) I would approach the slip with the bow heading into the slip. I would let the wind blow me backwards down the fairway, using the shifters to slow my speed going backwards and to keep the boat positioned where I wanted it. When I got the stern of the boat about midway across the slip (still being blown slowly backward) I'd put whichever engine I needed into forward and give it just a bit of gas. That stops the reverse motion and at the same time brings the stern into the slip. The whole thing for me was to control the speed the boat was being blown downwind.

At that point the bow is going to start being blown across the slip and it's time to get both engines into reverse and give a bit of gas to speed up the backing.

The wind can be your friend if you figure out ahead of time what it's going to do to your boat, and then let it help you.

I'm a bit confused with your method. With the bow heading in, you need to make a complete 180 to get the stern in. And I'd guess it would blow you sideways, not backward. (I'm trying to master cross winds, not straight in or out).

Can you elaborate? Thx!

You bet. I was talking about backing into the slip. I start with the bow pointed upwind and let the wind carry me back toward the slip. (that is if the wind is blowing toward the slip opening. If the wind is blowing FROM the back end of the slip you have to do it differently and I'll explain that in a minute). So the wind is carrying me backward toward the mouth of the slip. When the stern gets close to the slip opening I apply power in reverse to the appropriate engine and that starts to bring the stern around. At the same time the bow is starting to blow across the slip. Here's where it gets tricky. You have to apply enough power in reverse to get the boat heading back into the slip but not so much that you're going to ram the dock.

If the wind is blowing from the back end of the slip and at an angle, backing in becomes even easier. I back upwind, always aiming the stern toward the upwind finder dock. When the stern is getting right into the opening I often have to apply a bit of power to the engine in reverse and put the other into forward to swing the stern into the slip.

These might do a better job of explaining what I was trying to say.





Someone above commented about using the steering wheel to help line up the lower units. I've found my hands (and brain) are busy enough with watching where I'm going and using the shifters to get the boat to do what I want, without trying to add in maneuvering the steering wheel.

BTW, when I say the engines are going into reverse or forward, keep in mind that neutral is your friend. You should get used to bumping and engine into gear, leaving it there for a second or two, then going back to neutral. Give the boat time to react to your shift command and then, if more is needed go ahead and do it.

Also, keep in mind that when you're aiming the stern toward the slip opening, you want to be aiming it so you're close to the upwind finger dock when you're backing downwind and close to the downwind finger dock when you're backing upwind.
Does that make more sense?

 

[Seevee]

Gofirstclass,

Thx, but I have a hard time getting those methods to work, especially when there's a second boat in there on the upwind side (being pushed against the dock).

I prefer being downwind to the dock I'm tying up to, because the boat doesn't bang so much and need fewer fenders, but much harder to do.

In you first example, by the time I'm in position 4, my bow would swing downwind and hit the boat next to me. That method is impossible for me (even with a bow thruster, which this boat doesn't have).

The second example is the way I try, but don't have the timing down and the "window" of time to get someone off the stern to secure it is very tricky. I probably need a ton more practice. However, I'd like to be able to do this solo, and I'm a long way from that.

Below is more typical of what I'm dealing with.

Cant load the picture. How do I get it from the "upload image" dialog box into the message? Thx

 

[Madifonzo]

What's a dock wheel? Probably know what it is, but never heard of it.

Taylor made bumper that's round and on a spindle. Really helps so the corner of th dock doesn't gouge your hull. I have to hug the dock because I have a dock neighbor and there is very little room for error.

 

[Seevee]

Taylor made bumper that's round and on a spindle. Really helps so the corner of th dock doesn't gouge your hull. I have to hug the dock because I have a dock neighbor and there is very little room for error.

I've seen many of them, but won't fit my application. But I do have dock pads just in case, and they work fine.

Anyone know how to post a picture?

 

[Nauti-Kal]

I just bought my first twin screw and have been watching pro's on YOUTUBE teach how to dock with twins....the one thing they all talk about is putting your stern into the wind or current, which ever is the stronger! Picking up the 370DA from Ohio in a few week, i'm excited and nervous, Practice Practice Practice.....good luck!

 

[JVM225]

I dock with my twin I/O's all the time. Ideally you want to always try to back (power) in to the wind. That isn't always possible. But sometimes bypassing a slip, heading further down the canal or runway, then doing a 180 to approach the slip from the other way can get you lined up with the wind the way you want it.
Others may argue differently, but my experience has always been that I do much better if I keep the drives straight, and my hands off of the steering wheel anywhere around the dock. Once I introduce the steering wheel in to the equation, things get ugly fast.
One of the ways I've taught my teenage son and other people how to handle the boat around the dock is to take them to a place where they can practice doing 360's with the boat using only the controls, then move to progressively narrower quarters as they gain confidence. Then I have them run the boat at idle speed in winding areas for long periods of time using only the controls to steer.
Once they have faith in their ability to maneuver the boat with just the controls, they can back in to a slip with no problems.

 

[Seevee]

I dock with my twin I/O's all the time. Ideally you want to always try to back (power) in to the wind. That isn't always possible. But sometimes bypassing a slip, heading further down the canal or runway, then doing a 180 to approach the slip from the other way can get you lined up with the wind the way you want it.
Others may argue differently, but my experience has always been that I do much better if I keep the drives straight, and my hands off of the steering wheel anywhere around the dock. Once I introduce the steering wheel in to the equation, things get ugly fast.
One of the ways I've taught my teenage son and other people how to handle the boat around the dock is to take them to a place where they can practice doing 360's with the boat using only the controls, then move to progressively narrower quarters as they gain confidence. Then I have them run the boat at idle speed in winding areas for long periods of time using only the controls to steer.
Once they have faith in their ability to maneuver the boat with just the controls, they can back in to a slip with no problems.

JVM,

Sounds good, and it's easy..... until there's wind, and then it's a *****, unless going into a dock where you'll tie upwind of the dock, in which one lets the wind blow them to the dock. Easy. Also easy if the wind is straight in or out. It's the crosswinds, when you want to be downwind of the dock, so the boat isn't blown constantly back into the dock.

It's the docking downwind (the dock is upwind of the boat), and unless one has the techniques down and doesn't hesitate, it's all but impossible. So, backing in at idle won't work.

I'm looking for the little techniques that will allow the boat to get close enough to get a line off before getting blown down wind into the next boat. Don't have that down, yet.

Do you know how to post a pix here? I can download one but can't get it into the message. Thx.