Differences between the 650 Fly and 650 Express

[Breakwater]

What are the performance differences and weight differences between the two. Other than the Fly Bridge and aft seating config, is there any other differences between the two? Thanks for any info, Sean

 

[fwebster]

The boat are virtually identical except on has a bridge and the other is an express cruiser. Power is the same, options are the same, layout below deck is the same, salon and saloncontrol station is the same. Having said that, these boat are at the top of the production boat pecking order where most buyers will demand some customization, so if you see boats with a slightly different layout, etc, it is probably due to a customer's customization.

The engine package on the 650L is extremely well matched to the hull/weight of the boat. I was fortunate to spend some time on the prototype 650FLY, but have not been on the express, but I am told the performance is virtually the same.

 

[Sea Gull]

The Fly is heavier, by approximately 20,000 pounds no matter what. But, options and owner choices can have a significant impact as Frank said. Heavier items include gyros (2 @ 1200 pound each), crew quarters, teak decking, hard top vs arch on the bridge, etc.

Last November I was cruising my 58 DB down the ICW approaching Sea Ray's Palm Coast facility. An L650 express was maneuvering around in the channel ahead and I sped up to catch her. Just as I did, she went to WOT away from me. I went to WOT, which is about 32 knots on the 58DB. That L650 just left me in her wake. Must have been doing 35 knots or more. IMPRESSIVE!

 

[Billfletcher]

Do you feel the extra weight, and higher center of gravity (metacenter) of the bridge, will have the same ride in seas as a lower CG EC with the gyros? IE, are these gyros that good?

 

[Sea Gull]

You are right that there's got to be a difference with all that stuff up high. However, the Fly is completely stable and safe whether it has gyros or not or with gyros off. SR designers have gone to great lengths to make sure to limit weight aloft and designed the bridge model first to make sure of it. It has safe righting moment no matter what.

I've never driven the express, but have been in the fly in 4 footers that disappeared under that massive hull like they were wind ripples. The gyros dampen roll and add to overall comfort, but are not relied on for inherent stability.

That being said, at anchor sitting up on the bridge you will feel any movement amplified by your height, which is true on any vessel. The gyros offset a lot of this, increasing crew comfort.

 

[Breakwater]

The Fly is heavier, by approximately 20,000 pounds no matter what. But, options and owner choices can have a significant impact as Frank said. Heavier items include gyros (2 @ 1200 pound each), crew quarters, teak decking, hard top vs arch on the bridge, etc.

Last November I was cruising my 58 DB down the ICW approaching Sea Ray's Palm Coast facility. An L650 express was maneuvering around in the channel ahead and I sped up to catch her. Just as I did, she went to WOT away from me. I went to WOT, which is about 32 knots on the 58DB. That L650 just left me in her wake. Must have been doing 35 knots or more. IMPRESSIVE!

I would have thought with the weight difference and having less wind drag on the express, the performance numbers would be noticeable. By the way Sea Gull, what part of Ct. do you hale from? I have family in Stratford on Lordship Beach. Sean

 

[fwebster]

On 2 of the days on the trip back to Florida in the 650FFLY we were in 4-6 ft seas on the port bow. I absolutely love the stabilizers and they do take a ton of the roll out of the boat in beam seas. I think the stabilizers change the ride characteristics in a noticeable way, however in head seas with a beam component, the effect is not quite what you expect. True, the roll from side to side is almost eliminated, but by holding the hull up when it would normally run down one wave and enter the next one near the trough then run up its face, with the stabilizers on, the hull remains flat. That tends to cause the up-sea chine to stay out of the water from one wave to the next and causes the boat to hit the next wave with a noticeable impact. We ran at a very constant 75% power and only slowed down when seas reached 6+ft. The boat was happy and was handling the seas quite well, but it was a new boat on the way to its buyer and we didn't want to "beat the boat up" in rough seas.

Overall, stability is certainly not an issue with the FLY. Even in a significant following sea and current entering some of the channels in the Carolinas and Florida, the 650 was so stable that we never once had to change course to stay where we needed to be. I can't imagine the Express version would be any different....or ,for that matter, how it could be any better that the FLY.

Another factor to realize is that this is a new design built using "Quiet Ride" .....and it really does work. After years in a mid-sized Sundancer with a canvas top, the silence in the salon is kind of off-putting. The boat is so quiet that I found myself opening the sliding panel beside the helm just to hear "boat sounds".

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

Breakwater..... if you are interested in the 650 series, either FLY or Express please let me know and I will try to obtain all the written literature you may need.

On this thread you are hearing from two gentlemen who have driven the 650FLY in ocean conditions so take their advice to heart. I have driven pretty much all of them and really do not see that much performance difference between the FLY or Express. I suppose if we firewalled the motors for an extended period the less wind drag may come into play but I do not drive like that so you are comparing cherries to cherries between the two to me.

Let me know if I can help you sir.

Capt. Rusty

 

[Billfletcher]

My question, although phrased poorly, was if the ride was smoother on the bridge with these new gyro, and other stability systems. It is one of the reasons I always preferred the EC style, because I get a bit woozy up there with the extra motion.



I realize standing on the bridge, there will be more motion, but I was curious how much of that was dampened by these fancy systems which I know nothing about.



From the responses, she sounds like an amazing vessel and the ride is excellent.

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

As a captain I am not a gadget kind of guy and tend to stay with what I know when dealing with waves and weather, but after many days on the 650's I find myself to be a huge fan of the Seakeeper stabilizer gyro's. The Seakeeper gyro's are completely internal with no parts coming out of the hull and do provide an 80% reduction in roll from side to side. Our testing showed the test boat enduring a 10 degree roll and when the gyro's were turned on that number fell to 2 degrees. In my language I will tell you from experience that the gyro's will turn 3-5 foot abeam seas into 1-3's.

I am not saying they are an absolute must, as I have gone years upon years without them but in bigger boats they sure make a noticeable difference, especially on the bridge.

Not even really a fancy system if you remember spinning a top on the table when we were kids. Notice it always wanted to right itself when you touched it spinning...same thing happening here but with a wee bit bigger top.

Capt. R

 

[Breakwater]

Breakwater..... if you are interested in the 650 series, either FLY or Express please let me know and I will try to obtain all the written literature you may need.

On this thread you are hearing from two gentlemen who have driven the 650FLY in ocean conditions so take their advice to heart. I have driven pretty much all of them and really do not see that much performance difference between the FLY or Express. I suppose if we firewalled the motors for an extended period the less wind drag may come into play but I do not drive like that so you are comparing cherries to cherries between the two to me.

Let me know if I can help you sir.

Capt. Rusty

Thank you Capt. Rusty. I will let you know when and what I may need as far as info goes. I very much enjoyed following the thread of your east coast trip showing the Fly. I think that the L series are the best looking vessels I've seen anywhere. Sean

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

And they are way fun to drive Sean. The 650 is extremely strong and handles more than I can. FW and I did Atlantic City to Norfolk in daylight hours even after being detained by the USCG a few miles offshore due to a launch window from Wallops Island VA. We cruised around 25 knots and busted 4-6 footers like baby speed bumps. She is a big boat and being on the FLY bridge version gives you the realization of what 30mph in an 85,000 lbs. boat is all about. The 650 has two big CAT C18 Acert 1150hp power plants and they are just that. Big wheels on the back handling big torque allowing you easy handling around docks and narrow fairways. This new yacht also offers hydraulic thrusters both front and rear. These thrusters have kind of made me loose some docking skills as they allow the boat to just walk sideways for as long as needed, they are hydraulic so no overheating or fuses/breakers to trip and are powered from the big CATs.

You mentioned all L Class and now that I have operated the new 590 a bunch of times, I can attest to that boat’s handling as well. Three QSC Cummins Zeus drive power plants give me the sensation of driving a jet boat but in an almost 60 foot vessel. Much different than the 650 but just as much fun to operate. The sleek stylings of the Express versions of the L Class boats have galley and helm on the same deck inside which keeps the conversations and sightseeing at a more personal level. Then there are the open bridge FLY models which I too have to confess I was not at all a fan of when we were producing the first one. I am a Floridian and require climate controlled areas on the boat and that includes the bridge. Well, I have changed my tune 180 degrees after driving that boat to Boston and back. Being in the open air first thing in the morning while winding my way out of a marina(s) in Boston, Long Island, NYC, Wrightsville Beach, Annapolis, Baltimore, Charleston, Savannah, St. Augustine, West Palm, Miami, St. Pete and many others, with a cup of good coffee in my hand….well sir, it just does not get much better than that. Why is the open air bridge so nice, because we have a fantastic full lower helm on both the 650’s and the 590’s. Once we are past the demarcation line heading out of port or when the weather turns on us, we simply go downstairs in the AC to the helm which is located next to the galley……I am good for the long haul then!

Can I help you see one?

Capt. R

 

[estoltz]

And they are way fun to drive Sean. The 650 is extremely strong and handles more than I can. FW and I did Atlantic City to Norfolk in daylight hours even after being detained by the USCG a few miles offshore due to a launch window from Wallops Island VA. We cruised around 25 knots and busted 4-6 footers like baby speed bumps. She is a big boat and being on the FLY bridge version gives you the realization of what 30mph in an 85,000 lbs. boat is all about. The 650 has two big CAT C18 Acert 1150hp power plants and they are just that. Big wheels on the back handling big torque allowing you easy handling around docks and narrow fairways. This new yacht also offers hydraulic thrusters both front and rear. These thrusters have kind of made me loose some docking skills as they allow the boat to just walk sideways for as long as needed, they are hydraulic so no overheating or fuses/breakers to trip and are powered from the big CATs.

You mentioned all L Class and now that I have operated the new 590 a bunch of times, I can attest to that boat’s handling as well. Three QSC Cummins Zeus drive power plants give me the sensation of driving a jet boat but in an almost 60 foot vessel. Much different than the 650 but just as much fun to operate. The sleek stylings of the Express versions of the L Class boats have galley and helm on the same deck inside which keeps the conversations and sightseeing at a more personal level. Then there are the open bridge FLY models which I too have to confess I was not at all a fan of when we were producing the first one. I am a Floridian and require climate controlled areas of the boat and that includes the bridge. Well, I have changed my tune 180 degrees after driving that boat to Boston and back. Being in the open air first thing in the morning while winding my way out of a marina(s) in Boston, Long Island, NYC, Wrightsville Beach, Annapolis, Baltimore, Charleston, Savannah, St. Augustine, West Palm, Miami, St. Pete and many others, with a cup of good coffee in my hand….well sir, it just does not get much better than that. Why is the open air bridge so nice, because we have a fantastic full lower helm on both the 650’s and the 590’s. Once we are past the demarcation line heading out of port or when the weather turns on us, we simply go downstairs in the AC to the helm which is located next to the galley……I am good for the long haul then!

Can I help you see one?

Capt. R

Not only does he deliver them he sells them. Makes me want one but I don't think I would survive the Admiral's wrath.

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

I wish, I can only imagine the commission, lol......it's just a passion boss.


Capt. R

 

[rondds]

Your NEXT career Cap'n!

 

[Billfletcher]

Cap Rusty- It is obvious you love SR's, and we appreciate your passion. Thanks for the info on the gyro's. Bring on of those big girls to So-Cal one of these day so we can see one .

OP - sorry if I jumped in, and asked questions on your thread, but figured they were related to your original question.