Death statistics, how about some meaningful numbers?

Golfman25 said:
US Constitutional law is pretty easy. To restrict a constitutional right the government has the have a compelling governmental interest. A pandemic should qualify. However, any action they take has to be narrowly tailored the their goal of slowing the spread of the disease. I don't believe some Governors has narrowly tailored the requirements. Social distancing, masks, washing hands, I get all that. Even disallowing large gatherings, fine. But how do you justify closing wide open public spaces like parks, beaches and such while at the same time allowing people to cram into buses or train cars? One's a moving petri dish. The other is wide open park.
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Our transit in Toronto is still running. Lots of signs encouraging the 6ft and social distancing guidance. With so many places shut down or on work from home, transit is not crowded so people can keep the distance. If things get opened up, transit will get crowded and it will be impossible. that probably has a lot do do with why big cities were hit hard. More people in smaller spaces.
 
CaptRonn said:
Keep deflecting there buddy. Again, not playing your silly game.
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Deflecting what? Fine, I will stop. Your views are clear. You think its time to open the economy up and you don't think more people will die as a result that wouldn't die anyway. I disagree. I think that more people will die in total if they open up now. I think the balance is still tilted to the lives side of lives/economy. You disagree.

There. Its simple, and I did not have to bring in any hyperbole or sarcasm. I hope you are right. I pray you are right. I worry you are wrong.
 
Creekwood said:
Deflecting what? Fine, I will stop. Your views are clear. You think its time to open the economy up and you don't think more people will die as a result that wouldn't die anyway. I disagree. I think that more people will die in total if they open up now. I think the balance is still tilted to the lives side of lives/economy. You disagree.

There. Its simple, and I did not have to bring in any hyperbole or sarcasm. I hope you are right. I pray you are right. I worry you are wrong.
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@Creekwood what are your thoughts on other deaths, not COVID related, due to the prolonged economic shut down?
 
firecadet613 said:
@Creekwood what are your thoughts on other deaths, not COVID related, due to the prolonged economic shut down?
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Is that a hypothetical question? What other deaths are you talking about? I guess you are implying suicides due to economic issues directly caused by COVID? I don't know what those statistics are for those deaths. If someone has those statistics, I can give a view. If they are higher than the COVID deaths then that is tragic and I would probably be on the side of the least deaths, the "Sophie's Choice" horrible trade off.

So if you are sure that there are over 18,500 suicides to date that were caused by the economic issues related to the COVID shutdown, and that could have been avoided if there were no shutdowns at all, then that is tragic, and you should raise that issue to the highest place you can.
 
We can debate whine complain and bitch about the economical cost and the loss of life. The facts don't change that today we passed 500,000 confirmed cases and just under 19,000 deaths. The virus is spreading at over 30,000 new cases a day. Remember March 3rd there were 124 confirmed cases here. I would not want to be the one to make the decision to open the country up again get the timing wrong and we are doomed either by the virus or the economy.
 
Iprof said:
We can debate whine complain and bitch about the economical cost and the loss of life. The facts don't change that today we passed 500,000 confirmed cases and just under 19,000 deaths. The virus is spreading at over 30,000 new cases a day. Remember March 3rd there were 124 confirmed cases here. I would not want to be the one to make the decision to open the country up again get the timing wrong and we are doomed either by the virus or the economy.
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Is it spreading at that rate or is testing just catching up with it?
 
Once again , no matter how much testing there is we will never know how many people has had it unless every person is tested. There is no doubt the number of people who has had it and has it is far beyond the numbers reported. Dosen’t common sense tell us that. I know it’s serious and deadly.
I am older and smoke and my wife has severe upper respiratory issues. We are careful, but I also have grand children and other family that needs to work.
In our area they are cutting health care workers back, no work. Funny thing is TOILET PAPER still a hot commodity. Go
figure.
We are willing to take the risk so our kids & grand kids has something to make a life of.
Sacrificing this countries economic standing is dangerous, you can bet China & Russia watching closely.
 
Shenanigans77 said:
Is it spreading at that rate or is testing just catching up with it?
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They did 185,000 tests in a 24hr period and 33,000 cases were confirmed. The 30,000 cases a day had been pretty consistent for a week now.
 
Iprof said:
They did 185,000 tests in a 24hr period and 33,000 cases were confirmed. The 30,000 cases a day had been pretty consistent for a week now.
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And of the over 500k confirmed cases in the US im betting you could safely double it, or more. Truth is nobody knows. Who has it or has had it. Its all guessing
 
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Iprof said:
We can debate whine complain and bitch about the economical cost and the loss of life. The facts don't change that today we passed 500,000 confirmed cases and just under 19,000 deaths. The virus is spreading at over 30,000 new cases a day. Remember March 3rd there were 124 confirmed cases here. I would not want to be the one to make the decision to open the country up again get the timing wrong and we are doomed either by the virus or the economy.
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On average, something like 7000-8000 people die per day in the US from regular old life. We have to find a balance somewhere.
 
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Iprof said:
They did 185,000 tests in a 24hr period and 33,000 cases were confirmed. The 30,000 cases a day had been pretty consistent for a week now.
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But here is the thing. The average incubation period is 5 days, with 97% showing symptoms in 12 days. New York locked down 3/22 (I use them because they are the leader in the clubhouse). We are 7 days past that 97% percentile. If we don't start seeing a significant decline in new cases the next several days we have to question the efficacy of "stay at home." I assume Dr. Brirx et. al. have more granular data so they can see the effect of increase testing and other factors.
 
Golfman25 said:
On average, something like 7000-8000 people die per day in the US from regular old life. We have to find a balance somewhere.
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The problem is this is not a situation that we can say crap we made a mistake shut the country back down again. We are probally only going to get one chance at this and it has to be right. I agree we need to find a balance some how.
 
Golfman25 said:
But here is the thing. The average incubation period is 5 days, with 97% showing symptoms in 12 days. New York locked down 3/22 (I use them because they are the leader in the clubhouse). We are 7 days past that 97% percentile. If we don't start seeing a significant decline in new cases the next several days we have to question the efficacy of "stay at home." I assume Dr. Brirx et. al. have more granular data so they can see the effect of increase testing and other factors.
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NY has a population density of 26,000 per square mile Manhattan is 66,000 per square mile. That's a lot of high rise buildings and a subway system that is a breeding ground for a virus like Covid-19.
 
Iprof said:
NY has a population density of 26,000 per square mile Manhattan is 66,000 per square mile. That's a lot of high rise buildings and a subway system that is a breeding ground for a virus like Covid-19.
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Unlike most of the country.
 
Iprof said:
NY has a population density of 26,000 per square mile Manhattan is 66,000 per square mile. That's a lot of high rise buildings and a subway system that is a breeding ground for a virus like Covid-19.
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I couldn't live in something like that. My whole county only has 32,000 people, that's about 25/sqmi...about the same as the deer.
 
Blueone said:
My daughter was called off today for her shift...Corona patients are down to 34 and 16 of those on ventilators ….no elective surgery and no car accidents...and no heart attacks for some reason....heart attacks have dropped alot
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Being on the front line, from what she experienced, how does your daughter feel about the state of things?
 
Woody said:
Being on the front line, from what she experienced, how does your daughter feel about the state of things?
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Both of my daughters are pretty hardened and go with the flow... Like the other day the hospital was handing out sunglasses because they ran out of face shields...they just don't sweat it. They don't get wound up in politics or management....though I did say to my Indy daughter the other day...I think she might be a closet democrat....she got upset so that made me feel better :)… Both say Corona sees color... They can tell instantly when a patient comes in whether Corona is going to like them or not... it's all about your underlying conditions... Both say it's getting better.... Nurses and Techs are a different breed.... They are right on the front lines for sure and don't bat an eye.... you have to admire their effort.
 
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