Dealing with canvas shop - am I a bad customer?

[romanservices]

Little background
Last fall I contracted out to have my forward enclosure re done. At that time everyone said the bimini was fine so they planned on keeping that. measurements were done and I scheduled the shrink wrapping. a nasty wind storm blew through and basically ripped up the bimini. by this time it was too late to take measurements for a new bimini because the wrap was installed just a couple days after the storm.

I contacted the canvas shop and had them add the top to the job, they said they would have to measure for the top and remeasure for the enclosure. makes sense to be and I'm ok with that.

fasts forward to spring time, I contact the canvas shop to get an idea of how much time they would need to measure, make and install the canvas. I was told that because I had contracted this last year and already gave a deposit that I would be pushed to the front of the line. Basically I was told they would measure for the bimini once the wrap was removed, fabricate that and have it installed within a few days. after that it would be about a week for the enclosure to get finished up.

(not mentioned below are countless times I asked for an estimate for the aft enclosure, never getting it. always a response 'oh you never got that email?')

so looking at the weather I saw an excellent weather window, I called the shop and everything was all set! they were to start first thing Monday

Saturday: shrink wrap removed
Monday: nothing
Tuesday nothing - called and was told they had a delivery on Monday and could not get to the boat, I asked will the top be on this week: they said yes by Thursday or Friday
Wednesday: nothing
Thursday: nothing
Friday: nothing - called in am - left message, called in afternoon - left message, stopped by the shop at the end of the day - owner working alone in back (some upholstery job) - was told to calm down (wasn't not calm) and have patience. He said they just couldn't get to it.

Ok so I wasn't pushed to the front of the line like they said, they never called to say sorry looks like we won't make the time frame we promised.

Friday Night: an unpredicted rain storm blows through
Saturday: uh oh... on my bridge there is a 4'x8' removable panel to get into the salon for engine removal - although the silicone looks great it's actually not making a seal and water get in and soaks the ceiling panel and carpet. - so I spend my day extracting water from the carpet, pulled ceiling panel to dry out and probably replace. re calked the hatch on the bridge

Monday: called the canvas shop, this time a little upset and confronted they guy about missing deadlines. at this point he went off on me saying i keep bugging him and this stuff takes time. he kept saying there is only two of us... why do I get customers like you... blah blah blah. I was a bit in shock with the way this guy was treating me as a customer.

Am I a bad customer? should I just shut up and wait for the job to get done and not care about time frames?

 

[DjDaoust]

At the first sense of terrible customer service, I would have demanded my down-payment back and shopped elsewhere. It blows my mind how some of these canvas shops can operate so unreliably.

 

[Stee6043]

We always have choices. I suppose your choices now are 1.) take your deposit back and find another canvas company where you will certainly be at the end of the line or 2.) play nice with your current guy and hope for the best?

He knows this is canvas high season. He knows you will not find anybody to do it faster since he's already at least measured your boat. He knows (now) you're very passionate about getting it done ASAP. Unfortunately he knows now he has all the leverage.

Perhaps hint at wanting your deposit back and see if that changes his tune?Potential worst case - he immediately refunds it and says "good luck" and you don't get new canvas until July because everyone else is fully booked.

As for being a bad customer - maybe? I've never seen the point in getting verbally upset with folks in these situations. Clearly communicate your interest to the person and make sure they understand you're willing to take your business elsewhere if your needs aren't met. Any other passion or drama is just bound to make things more difficult or more expensive in the long run.

My two cents only of course.

 

[Strypes]

I'd go elsewhere.

 

[northern]

based on my experience with canvas shop you will loose your deposit and no one will help you. In the area we are they all seem to know each other and have too much work. They do not turn down work. When I deal with them now, Work first then payment. If they do not like it I go to the next place.

 

[CliffA]

I don't think it is too much to ask of a canvas shop owner to give you an honest estimate of the amount of time it will take for his shop to do the work based off of the backlog of business he currently has.....I would much rather be told that a shop will do the job but it will probably take 2 months due to work that is already in the books instead of being told they would do the job and say it would take a couple weeks just to secure the job.....

my time is valuable and I need realistic time frames for things getting done so that I can plan accordingly....there is little I despise more than being told someone will do the work I need in a certain time frame and then having to bug them and beg them several times once that time frame has passed.....

if I was a small business owner that cannot afford to spend high dollars on advertising and relies on 'word of mouth' as the main source of advertising for my company the last thing I would want is dis-satisfied customers.....I find it amazing how fast word travels at our marina when someone has a bad experience with a local shop whether it be for canvas work or engine repair.....justified or not that shop now has a bad reputation with the boat owners at our marina and has now lost a chance of significant revenue in the future....

one rule I have heard that a business owner should follow is to always tell the customer to expect the job to be completed in a time frame that may be a little longer than really is needed...that way if things go as planned the job gets done early and the customer is happy....if something comes up and delays the job slightly and the job gets done at or very close to the original deadline then the customer still is happy.....you know 'under promise and over deliver'.....

good business practices ain't 'rocket surgery'.....http://clubsearay.com/images/smilies/115.gif.....its just common sense....

so to answer your original question I do not view you as a bad customer...you are well within your rights to be upset.....I cannot excuse the actions of the shop owner just because 'he does the best work around' or 'he has the only shop around' or any other nonsense like that.....in these situations I find it best to address the issue head on with tact and professionalism instead of 'tip toeing' around the issue because you are afraid to 'upset' the owner....

just my $.02 worth.....

cliff

 

[Strecker25]

In our area this is how all marine services seem to operate and it blows my mind. Most companies I've talked to act like I'm annoying them when I ask for quotes or estimates and always say how busy they are, not to get too anxious as they don't have enough time or employees, etc. The only one I do business with that has not acted like that is our mechanic who hauls/launches the boat. Thank god since I rely on them to get us in and out of the water. Everyone else is a nightmare to deal with.

You acted exactly as I would have. I'd take my business elsewhere. I'm assuming Great Lakes does't have the AC patterns? Friends of ours have an 80s AC and had to get the enclosure custom made.

 

[Mystic Dreamer]

I paid an owner of a local canvas shop $1600 for deposit to do my 280 bowrider canvas. Check was cashed, then heard nothing. Finally found that she had moved from St. Pete to Ohio and there was a warrant out for her arrest for violation of probation- so that money is now gone. This was a referral from a friend too... I am now having the canvas redone with a local, reputable canvas shop that has been here for years. Not sure what it is, but especially here in Florida, you can't count on marine contractors.

 

[Mike Blake]

I have a great guy in Crystal River FL not ever a problem. he did 3 boats for me.

 

[Crushin It]

Ask for money back...

 

[fwebster]

Be careful what you say and how much you threaten until you fin out about the quality of work, cost, and lead times on other canvas shops in the area………and if there are other shops in the area.

 

[romanservices]

Great comments, thanks! For me spending 7k on canvas isn't something I do often. I agree with Strecker25, out here it also seems like contractors are annoyed by customers and not just on the marine side.

Update: I guess my call today worked, I have a Bimini on the boat now. I went down there to re caulk some joints and found the canvas guys there fitting it. Rather than make things worse I apologized for the sideways conversation earlier and thanked them for getting the Bimini on. After calling around to other shops I quickly realized at this point it would be another 4 months if I went elsewhere. The shop has been around since 77 and they do decent work, perhaps the busy season just got to them.

 

[mobocracy]

I think this is common in kind of niche businesses.

I shopped around forever for a plating vendor to have a $1400 handgun hard-chrome plated. I thought I was satisfied with my choice until they blew through their estimated time frame by double with still no return date in sight. I requested specific return shipping instructions which I stated I was willing to pay double for (FedEx priority overnight, adult signature required, $2500 insurance). I came home from work one day and found a poorly wrapped box with my very expensive firearm sitting on my front porch, where it had sat all day long. Shipped UPS ground. No insurance. Possibly even a felony.

As it turns out, the plating job was excellent, but it was hell to deal with them. Everyone who's dealt with a gunsmith has a similar story.

 

[Quint4]

I have a side business as a Marine canvas fabricator (sounds fancy, don't it?). I am working 10-12 hour days right now to keep up. These are jobs that were booked last Fall/Winter.

I will tell you this, I:
- answer my phone
- reply to emails
- reply to texts
- make quick alterations or fixes if something is not right
- never promise something if I do not think I can deliver

I do not think you are a bad customer. Having said all that, I must say I am not getting rich and am constantly adjusting my prices up.

Why? Because although I enjoy it, it is hard tedious work and takes a lot of my time. Also after 5 years my skill level is getting really good and has value.

Almost all my customers are word of mouth.

Here is my current project......all new enclosure with a redesigned frame on a 350 Rinker (I already have 40 hrs in on this.......this will be a full enclosure):

 

[ttmott]

It just seems to be the way small business operates these days. The telephone isn't far away; keep your customer's in the loop. Even if a schedule can't be met a routine call is the best thing a business owner can do.
Anything "boat" related in our area is backlogged 3 to 5 months.

 

[Jeff Evans]

In my mind canvas work is an art form.

I have been fortunate to have a very skilled team in Sarnia Ontario (Bluewater Padded Accents) who serve boaters in Ontario and Michigan.

They have put custom canvas on all of my cruisers and runabouts over the past 28 years. They are booked solid given their reputation and you need a reservation but they always do the work on time and with the highest quality.

I never quibble about the price as poor quality or late delivery would drive me nuts. I wish I could get the same level of service on all my boating needs.

 

[northshore]

I would have lit him up like a pinball machine at that point.

"Why do you get customers like me? - If this is happening a lot, maybe it's you? Do you make a habit of taking on more than you can possibly handle along with peoples money and then ask for patience?"

I do applaud you for de-escalating the whole thing at the end.

I've called the guy that did my canvas originally to do fender covers and some other side work. One time he told me two weeks before he could get to it and another time he just flat out turned me down - too much work.

-Mike

 

[boatman37]

Mine is at the shop now. Supposed to be done the end of the week. I took it to him a week or two ago but had already scheduled the week of the 17th with him. Hopefully I can pick it up Saturday. When I dropped it off there were about 6 or 7 other boats sitting there so hopefully mine is on schedule.

Quint, nice work there.

 

[northern]

I used to build oil field things. We took things from concept to completion. We designed, wrote the bids, hired the contractors and administered the projects. One thing we did was never take on more than we could deliver on. Hard to do when we started out as money was tight and we all needed work. But one late job taught us delivery of project on time with quality always got you more work. We are presently redoing our house. I write contracts for all things and one item of importance is START DATE and END DATE. Get the person doing your work next time to put that in his contract.

 

[CaptRonn]

I put out bids for my 400EC aft camper top. I already had the hardware, just needed the aft Bimini and enclosure made. First business had me waiting at the dock for her to show up, she wanders up late and walks around looking at the boat with this disinterested attitude that she is somehow doing me a favor by being there. I tell her there is no rush (start of fall) and whenever she could work it in that would be fine. The next day she texts me a bid of $5000. YGTBSM.

Next guy bids it at $2600. I start asking questions (brand of islenglass he uses, type of thread, type of material, etc). He clearly didn't like the questions. Other vendors were "too busy" to even quote me.

So I got on YouTube, watched videos by Sailrite. Bought a Necchi sewing machine ($300) and bought the material from Sailrite. I used Sunbrella, O'Sea polished 30g plastic and sewed it using teflon thread. Cost of material? About $1100. And that includes replacing all of the isenglass around the front Bimini as well.

I'll finish it up this weekend. Looks fine (I'm the first to admit there are small flaws) and if I was continuing to make more of these my process would refine. But the bottom line is I made it my way, to order and saved a boat load of money, and didn't have to put up with somebody's crap to get it done.

Oh, and I just did a complete service on both engines (new risers and manifolds, oil and filter, fuel filters, raw water pump rebuilds and new oil and transmission coolers). Again, bought my own parts and did it myself.

I refuse to be held hostage by these vendors.