Current state of affairs - anxiety about buying a boat

Little Ducky said:
Why pay cash? Unless it's a 10K run about.

Finance that thing and enjoy it paying out 4-5% or so.

When we are trying to survive after a nuclear war you will have the cash under the mattress to bargain with.
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Well, my finance guy talked me out of cash as well. He thought a HELOC was a better option, which is what I am doing for 50% of it. When I say "cash" that's what I really mean, not a loan if you will. He knows me well, knows I hate debt, so he gave more 4 options, this was his #1 option.
 
ENstig8or said:
I think without question the pricing will drop to whatever normal levels should be. How long that will be is the only question in my mind. I have some friends in the boat brokerage business. They feel prices have peaked and they are seeing some boats that they sold within the last 2 years come back on the market. Many people who just jumped into boating had no idea what it costs to maintain and run these things. Some of them were not financially prepared for that. They thought of it like a car. Payment plus insurance plus gas. I can afford that so let's get it. Then they find out it may cost them 30k to maintain the thing every year and then it's holy shit time. I only mention this because when these people start bailing out and flooding the market with boats, prices undoubtedly will plunge. It's supply and demand. Demand is driving prices up and when supply exceeds demand, down they go.
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I am hearing the opposite from brokers I respect. Just goes to show how crazy, unstable and unpredictable this market is I guess. I think we are all throwing darts at a board.

Stee6043 said:
I think you have to segment the boat market a bit with this type of logic. I tend to think the people that "dove in" to boating while flush with cash in 2020/2021, with zero boating experience, were mostly buying the ski boats, bowriders, CC's and the like. Jumping straight into 35'+ cruisers? Hmmm...

I think the cruiser market has been more impacted by many folks up-sizing because they had more cash in their accounts and had a new level of flexibility in their work schedules. At this point I assume most of our accounts are shrinking but this whole "work from home" thing is not going away very quickly. I think the professionals that bought up the cruisers are going to hold. They knew what they were getting into. And they call it "the office" 3 days a week now :)

My two cents only of course.
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This is what I am hearing from brokers. The supply/inventory of bigger cruiser boats is VERY low.

Jus Cruisin said:
@mrsrobinson as someone that only knows you by your posts, I have you pegged as a worry wart which I'm afraid you'll give yourself a stroke with all of your "what ifs". Maybe I'm reading you wrong. I hope I am. I've lived with the Alfred E Newman motto as much as possible. View attachment 122147
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I definitely tend to over analyze things, especially BIG purchases. And it's gotten worse as I get closer to retirement, on the "other side" of 50. I have no debt, so that's good I guess.

I grew up poor as well, looking back we were very poor. I didn't understand it as a kid but I do now as an adult. So again big purchases are difficult for me.
 
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mrsrobinson said:
No idea what this means, but would appreciate you not replying to this thread at this point if it was criticism/judgement.
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No disrespect.....its a thing
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If it's the right boat for you at a fair price now then buy it. Any money you might save if purchased in the future will be offset by the loss you take on this one plus the expenses for your next search and pre-purchase arrangements.

Look at it from a different perspective - if you went on a two week vacation that cost you $10K you would be out the full amount when you get home. Each week you get to use your boat you get to take it home and keep it.

There are not guarantees in life - you just never now - don't let it pass you by - memories are forever - even when your gone.

-Kevin
 
First you have found a unicorn boat. Not many in that size with the diesels. Second prices won’t go down until I buy mine. :)

Move forward with it. You’re already there. I walked on a boat in the fall of 2019 because there will always be the next one. Well guess what, there hasn’t been the next one. I thought the covid crash would send boats down. Well instead It’s been 2 years of frustration. To the point now that sellers are adverse to surveys and sea trials and they are still unloading their boats for top dollar. You never know what’s going to happen. Go buy your boat and enjoy it.
 
The boat you found is the boat to buy. Even if boat prices "crash" your boat wont depreciate much at all. It's a lot of boat for the money and that value will never go away. Much like the 40/41 versions they won't fall as far if the boating market corrects.

When in doubt go back to the video you posted during the sea trial. Diesel engines purring, cruising away, blue water behind you.....lots of people would kill for that opportunity.

Worst case scenario is you can always sell the boat. A well cared for 38 with diesels will sell in a flash.
 
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I'm shocked at the amount of people that worry about what they can sell a boat for before they even buy it. Boats are not investments. They are expenses that require trading money for enjoyment...a lot of money. Buy the damn boat if you can afford it.
 
Ramblin' Guy said:
Buying a boat is like having a kid. You’re never going to be ready and it’ll get harder later on. Then you’ll regret you didn’t do it sooner.
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I had 4 of the little phuckers…..3 girls one boy…. One daughter got married in the winter in Florida .. she is my favorite now….. one girl left to marry….. hopefully she is my new favorite… the rest got married during boating season… don’t like those ones
 
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Craig said:
I'm shocked at the amount of people that worry about what they can sell a boat for before they even buy it. Boats are not investments. They are expenses that require trading money for enjoyment...a lot of money. Buy the damn boat if you can afford it.
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I am this guy^. While I don't vacillate once I've made up my mind to purchase, one of my main points before selecting a boat is buying a boat that will sell. Which, to the point of this thread Mrsrobinson has done. He selected a boat that in any market will sell quicker and for more money than its counterparts. I would be more overcome with excitement that spring is around the corner and I get to finally use my new to me boat than worried about a market that has proven to fool all of us. I promise once you step foot on it for the first time as the owner all of this anxiety will go away.
 
So my first hand experience with this kind if dilemma was to sell a boat(2000 270 Sundancer) during August 2020 for twice what I could have sold it for the year before and buy a boat(2010 310 Sundancer) at a fair market price. My only regret was I went conservative, I really wanted a 320 or even a 340. So my advice is by the boat if you want a boat because as others have stated it seems like this is the BOAT you really want? 55 is young so you've got lots of time to make other moves if you want.
 
I have never looked at a boat, a toy, as in investment. I got lucky on my last 3 boats and did make money on their sale, that was never planned though. I got lucky on my last "weekend driver toy" BMW 335i and sold it for more than I paid for it as well. But then I purchased another one I have tuned/modified and will never recoup that, which I am ok with since I went into this one with a different agenda/goal/plan: I wanted to tune/modify it and teach myself how to do that and have fun with it.

I do buy expensive toys like this though thinking about resale. I personally think that is smart/wise. This is one of the top reasons I selected this boat over others, and also went with diesel over gas. I do the same when making upgrades/changes to my house, at least for big ticket stuff.

The driver behind this thread is the recent world changes, which got my thinking, or rethinking.

@SeaNile thanks for the big grin video reminder.

At 55 I am healthy, fit, still getting around pretty well. I play tennis with 30 somethings who are surprised when I kick their butt then tell them how old I am ;)

I've lost 2 friends this year to sudden/unexpected medical events, which got me thinking now is the time to do this, retirement may never come. Also my gfs parents saved money all their life, very frugal. They recently retired and are buying new cars, building garages, expanding their house, finally restoring the 1966 Mustang that has sat in the garage for 40 years, taking trips, etc. I thought to myself how lucky they are, but recently thought to myself "they waited 30 years to do this though" and they are in their late 60s. Why wait?
 
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Here's the way I look at larger 'toy' purchases.

1. They are TOYS and depreciation is normal - minus current market conditions
2. The way I manage depreciation is that I typically put enough money down (assuming I finance), that regardless of when I sell (and I always do at some point), I will have positive equity in the purchase. Whatever money I put down and whatever money I utilize for monthly payments I look at as a sunk cost - when it leaves my acct I may never see it again. I usually keep my toys approximately 5-10 years, so I initially evaluate what that toy prices out at age wise at 5 to 10 years old. I run some math and figure out what I'm comfortable doing at that point.
3. If I look at all the toys I've purchased over the past 20 years, I've financed about 50% of them. Some may say 'cash is king - only pay cash!'. I look at things differently. Cash reserves or liquidity is important to me. I always keep a set minimum. Then I always pay myself first every month... investments/retirement + savings. Whatever is leftover is fuck you money. See above sunk cost funds for toys.


Take your specific purchase and I think you have some good things in your corner that will help offset depreciation.

1. The boat is somewhat rare
2. The boat is and will continue to be in demand - it's not too big or too small. It's a great family boat.
3. Depreciation will occur (to what degree is always the unknown), however, say the boat doubles the normal depreciation over the next two years and you have to unload, you're not talking about an ungodly amount of money. It would be manageable worst case because you're buying towards the bottom of the depreciation curve (although it is inflated now).

I know my opinion doesn't mean much, but I'd buy boat. Whatever correction that will occur will only be temporary (likely 2 years). Then you'll have another two years before we're just about back to where we're at today. Do you plan on selling in 4 years? At 59 years old, I hope you plan on spending more time on that bad boy!
 
douglee25 said:
Here's the way I look at larger 'toy' purchases.

I know my opinion doesn't mean much, but I'd buy boat. Whatever correction that will occur will only be temporary (likely 2 years). Then you'll have another two years before we're just about back to where we're at today. Do you plan on selling in 4 years? At 59 years old, I hope you plan on spending more time on that bad boy!
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Well said, I follow a very similar approach. It's a challenge for me to finance anything though. I literally hate debt. I was ready to pay 100% cash when I ran this by my financial advisor. He gave me some great options, 4 I never even thought of:

1) HELOC
2) 401K Loan
3) Boat Loan
4) Portfolio line of credit
5) Securities backed loan (SBL)

1, 2, 4, and 5 are basically borrowing against my own equities/funds.

And your opinion does matter, ever since we met and you helped me resolve the new stereo issue on my 330DA!
 
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Long term retirement investments will go up and down and you can't constantly upend your life every time they do. Take the long view.

But I totally understand the sentiment. My wife and I just yesterday inked the contract to tear down our old 1960/1980 cottage on Georgian Bay and rebuild a house that we hope to move into basically full time in a few years when we sell our current actual house. Building materials are priced insanely now, and construction companies are sold out, so no negotiations are possible. We probably could have done this 4 years ago for about 1/3 less $. So if housing prices plummet we can very easily be underwater on our cost to build. But... its been our dream and it's one of the fruits of why I worked my ass off for 35 years. So its happening. No looking back.
 
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A HELOC makes a lot of sense for two reasons:
1) Assuming the economy doesn't get too bad, you can make more in your investments than you'd pay in interest, so you're actually ahead.
2) Most HELOC interest can be written off, as they're considered part of your home loan (YMMV). Check your local state tax laws for that one.

Our CEO retired about two years ago, but was still an active member on the board. He just passed away from a heart attack at the age of 65. My boss yells at me "Don't wait until you're 65 to retire!" I'm 62, and have already had a heart attack when I was 56. Buy the boat!
 
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