Contract signed, survey results ... eek

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by Likes2go, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Likes2go

    Likes2go New Member

    7
    Feb 17, 2018
    2005 sea ray 280 sundancer
    4.3 mercruiser
    Finally, after what seems like an eternity, reality is 5 years, we found a boat we both love that fits our needs. A 2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 280. We are newbies.. Offer signed, countered and settled. Marine survey completed which shows issues.. costs to repair unknown.. Our broker is telling us it shows well and is priced right and we should buy... issues are with hvac, generator and motor leaking oil (literally 2 drops during wot). What is fair to expect from the seller?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
    Curtis likes this.
  2. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    450 Sundancer
    3126 Cat's
    When we bought our boat it listed as turnkey, bristol condition. The survey turned up $3k in the E.R. gen. heat exchanger hoses, belts etc. The seller paid for all of it...
     
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  3. Steve S

    Steve S Active Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    629
    Jun 5, 2007
    Northern IL.
    2000 400 Sedan Bridge with twin CAT 3116's

    2000 340 Sundancer - SOLD!
    210 Monaco 1987 - SOLD!
    Twin Caterpillar 3116's 350 HP straight drives
    When my survey was complete there were about 25 things that came up. I pushed back on anything that was required equipment (IE:the horn) and functional like issues with an alternator and volt meter.

    I ignored things like cabinet latches, lights and other normal wear items. This included a leaky coolant system o ring which will be changed when I replace the coolant this spring.

    Previous owner repaired everything I had an issue with and we closed the deal.
     
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  4. bahamabreisus

    bahamabreisus Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    Hampstead NC
    500 dancer, previous 420,390,300 dancers
    detriot 8v92
    What are issues with gen and hvac. Both can get very expensive. We need more info.
     
  5. Likes2go

    Likes2go New Member

    7
    Feb 17, 2018
    2005 sea ray 280 sundancer
    4.3 mercruiser
    Heat not working and gen backfiring
     
  6. Curtis

    Curtis Member

    54
    Feb 6, 2013
    San Antonio, Texas
    320 Sundancer 2004
    Previous 280 Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 (496 Mags) w Bravo III drives
    Those could be expensive items. I would recommend having the seller fix both the hvac and the generator. If the seller fixes it, it will probably me minor, if you have to fix it...Murphy! I have a 2001 280 for sale right now. Mine does not have those issues but if it did, I would understand a buyer wanting those items fixed.
     
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  7. Little Ducky

    Little Ducky Active Member

    775
    Jun 5, 2017
    Chattanooga TN/Dickson TN
    1998 SeaRay 290 Sundancer
    Twin EFI 5.0L w/Alpha 1 drives
    Is the boat at a full service marina that could diagnose and quote repair costs for such things on your list?

    While mine was being surveyed last year a marina mechanic wrote up an estimate to do repairs and I gave the seller 2 options. Fix and I'll buy the boat for the negotiated price or deduct the estimated repair cost + 1K for unknowns. He chose the 2nd option and I purchased.

    Been very happy.

    Heat not working: If the unit runs in the heat mode but does not make heat it could be as simple as the change over valve stuck. Sometimes after a few heat to AC cycles they start to function again. The manual for most units says to exercise the valve occasionally even if you don't use the heat to keep this valve functional.

    Backfiring: Lets hope it just needs a good tune-up, injector cleaned, and a fresh set of plugs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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  8. northern

    northern Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Generator I would get a real mechanic to look at it. Get compression check.
    Look at coolant bottles if empty worry big time. If full worry even more.
     
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  9. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    513
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    A small oil leak on a 13 year old engine would not bother me.

    What are the issues with the genny and the AC?


    I replaced one of my AC’s this winter and it was only $1700 for a 16000 btu unit.
     
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  10. bahamabreisus

    bahamabreisus Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    Hampstead NC
    500 dancer, previous 420,390,300 dancers
    detriot 8v92
    As everybody has said, get it checked before closing. Renegotiate after finding repair costs.
     
  11. copb8tx

    copb8tx Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2008
    Lake Texoma, TX
    2005 420 Sundancer
    T-8.1S Horizons
    It all comes down to what the seller is willing to accept and whether you're willing to walk away from the deal and the money you've spent to date.

    If they're saying that these are minor repairs then they should be willing to repair them pre-sale at their expense or you can offer $x for towards the repairs and they'd liable for the balance. If the repair becomes more major then estimated then they would be out of pocket for the excess. If they chose not to do the repairs at all and you terminated the agreement you wouldn't be required to give the $x you offered.

    In my opinion those are very worrisome issues and I'd be very careful moving forward with them being resolved. Oh, and ignore anything the broker has to sale about the situation. No matter how nice or honest he is he's there to make a sale, period.
     
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  12. Likes2go

    Likes2go New Member

    7
    Feb 17, 2018
    2005 sea ray 280 sundancer
    4.3 mercruiser
    I feel we have already put in cost to have motor compressions checked and survey to the tune of $1,050... it would be more fees for a mechanic to check the problems and give cost of repairs.. shouldn’t seller come out of pocket at some point?
     
  13. copb8tx

    copb8tx Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2008
    Lake Texoma, TX
    2005 420 Sundancer
    T-8.1S Horizons
    Was the boat presented as in perfect working order? If so you definitely have an argument that they should have disclosed the issues prior to you investing in the survey and that they need to fix it or reimburse your expenses.

    That said, it'll be hard to prove that they knew and harder to get your cash back. So you're really at the mercy of they sense of fairness. If they won't budge then you'll need to weigh the lost cash against the risk of assuming the repairs. I've had to make that tough choice on a car I was going to buy that i'd flown to Montreal to see. Glad I ate the expense if the trip and walked away.
     
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  14. Little Ducky

    Little Ducky Active Member

    775
    Jun 5, 2017
    Chattanooga TN/Dickson TN
    1998 SeaRay 290 Sundancer
    Twin EFI 5.0L w/Alpha 1 drives
    It's money well spent even if you walk away from the deal.

    Does the owner have maintenance records for you to review?

    Lucky for me the boat that I purchased last year spent most of its time and serviced at the same marina so I had 7 years of maintenance records to review. After reviewing I knew little things and even big things were fixed along the way so it made it easier to buy a boat that needed some additional work to get it back to 100% knowing other things have been replaced, checked, and serviced.
     
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  15. NorCal Boater

    NorCal Boater Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2008
    Covington, LA
    Cobalt CM23
    GM SB 383" Stroker" Alpha Gen I
    Here is one thing to consider. Now that these items have been discovered in survey the seller has an required to disclose them to the next buyer if not you. In other words he is going to have to fixe the issues or get estimates and deduct from the listing price. Either way, he will be on the hook for the repairs.

    He won't want to lose the sale. As someone else suggested, get hard estimates for all the repairs and counter to the owner that you'll take the boat with all items repaired or deduct the repairs from the agreed upon price and ask for a $2000 hold back in case of other unknowns. If there are none he gets the $2k back....or whatever is left.

    The AC always worked well on my old 340da but the heat never did. I was told it was the reversing valve and it was going to be expensive to repair. When I sold the boat the buyers insisted I make the heat operational. I bit the bullet and called the guy. Turns out the system was low on refrigerant. $75.00 service call repaired it.

    Good Luck
    Shawn
     
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  16. Likes2go

    Likes2go New Member

    7
    Feb 17, 2018
    2005 sea ray 280 sundancer
    4.3 mercruiser
    Nonrecoredsp
    no service records. This is supposed to be a 2 owner boat and this owner has had it less than 2 years.
     
  17. Likes2go

    Likes2go New Member

    7
    Feb 17, 2018
    2005 sea ray 280 sundancer
    4.3 mercruiser
    It was presented as all operational. Thank you for the information. We wondered if he was required to disclose to other buyers if we pulled out.
     
  18. NorCal Boater

    NorCal Boater Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2008
    Covington, LA
    Cobalt CM23
    GM SB 383" Stroker" Alpha Gen I
    He is supposed to and his broker should make sure he does to keep things ethical.

    When we bought our 52' CPMY the survey revealed $21,000 in repairs needed. Some serious (blown head gasket on one motor) to trivial. We asked for all figuring....what the hell, why not? Plus we asked for a $2500 hold back as we didn't know if more items would be discovered once the motors were apart. Turns out there was a hidden item that cost an additional $1800. The seller got $700 back.

    Don't ever be afraid to ask. The buyer is in control....not the seller.
    Shawn
     
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  19. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    I’d make the genny and heat the sellers problem to repair.
    Enter in to a contract contingent on both being restored to proper working condition within a specific time period before you close.
    Either could be a can of worms and big dollar items to replace.
    You could get an estimate for repairs and negotiate with the seller to adjust the price but if the repairs are more complex once you own the boat you’ll be on your own. That’s a gamble.
    If the seller doesn’t want to fix them and let you reinspect before closing I’d move on.
     
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  20. copb8tx

    copb8tx Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2008
    Lake Texoma, TX
    2005 420 Sundancer
    T-8.1S Horizons
    BTW, if you walk away make sure you, and only you, get the survey. Don't leave it with the broker or current owner. You paid for it and should be compensated for it if they want access to it.
     

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