Considering a new boat

[Captsteve427]

We're thinking of making a move to a boat with some features that me and the admiral are admiring on other newer boats that we're seeing on our journeys. Top of the list.... Not a sedan bridge, diesel powered, but can't have POD drives, 100% glass enclosure (lock the door and go), built-in BBQ, retractable cockpit shade, 2-staterooms/heads and a hydraulic platform, or at least one that's low to the water line, which would allow a tender to be pulled up easily.

I know this is a hell of a wish list, but it appears that Sea Ray made a 400 Sundancer model in the mid 2010's that has all of these features and is with-in our budget. I'd like to get feedback from any CSR members that have one with what appears to be called Joy Stick Docking w/V-Drive Propulsion. Suggestions on any other makes/models that have similar features would also be appreciated.

 

[Tripsdad]

I can’t help with suggestions but we are considering moving up to a 42/44DA. Curious about why you wouldn’t want POD’s?

 

[Strecker25]

I can’t help with suggestions but we are considering moving up to a 42/44DA. Curious about why you wouldn’t want POD’s?

i have no first hand experience so I won’t bash them but a fair number of people have complained about the Zeus pods. Her Volvo IPS’ seem to be well received but you won’t find those in a searay

 

[Captsteve427]

I can’t help with suggestions but we are considering moving up to a 42/44DA. Curious about why you wouldn’t want POD’s?

I don't need a POD powered boat for docking purposes and the savings on fuel doesn't offset their extra cost to purchase, maintain, or repair when they breakdown, which is more often than a boat with v-drives.

Also, Cummins/Mercury no longer make them, which says a lot.

 

[copb8tx]

I assume you're describing the 400 Sundancer. I didn't know they offered then without pods. I've been on the pod version and it was a beautiful boat and beautiful interior with ample amenities. Touched a lot of the buttons you mentioned.

Won't get into the pod discussion, but my two impressions that made me not love the boat is the lack of exterior open space. The cockpit is small and covered. The bow sunpad was also small and pretty slanted. I also felt it ran fairly sluggish with a high running attitude.

Depending on where and how you're using it will determine if the outside areas enhance or detract from your enjoyment. The ride and performance can easily be assessed with a sea trial.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Not trying to side rail the conversation but I don't get the 100% glass enclosure that folks love now. I think it looks great and sometimes makes sense but you really get no outdoor exposure, right? I get not having to deal with the canvas and isinglass anymore, nothing would make me happier.

 

[Strypes]

I think it looks great and sometimes makes sense but you really get no outdoor exposure, right?

Step outside on the cockpit!

 

[Shoyrtt]

I'd like to get feedback from any CSR members that have one with what appears to be called Joy Stick Docking w/V-Drive Propulsion. Suggestions on any other makes/models that have similar features would also be appreciated.

I have never heard of a "joy stick" with a v-drive. I believe that Tiara had a 43' "Open" which was a coupe with direct drives in the 2010 era which was later called the "Coronet."
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2011-tiara-yachts-4300-open-7101670/
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2017-tiara-yachts-3600-coronet-8428748/

 

[sbw1]

Just a comment on joysticks. My wife never enjoyed docking the boat so she never developed the confidence to handle our Tiara with straight drive shafts in close quarters. However, at a Tiara sponsored event she drove a boat with a joy stick and was fully capable of handling it within 15 minutes of playing with it. The technology available today is remarkable.

 

[copb8tx]

They now have joy stick controlled straight drive boats that are integrated into bow and stern thrusters.

 

[Captsteve427]

I have never heard of a "joy stick" with a v-drive. I believe that Tiara had a 43' "Open" which was a coupe with direct drives in the 2010 era which was later called the "Coronet."
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2011-tiara-yachts-4300-open-7101670/
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2017-tiara-yachts-3600-coronet-8428748/

Here it is. It appears to be a computerized joystick system that works the drives and a bow thruster. I think it's a bit over kill, but an interesting boat just the same. I haven't been able to find one with PODS, so I think it must have been made only with v-drives.

Sea Ray Video Walkthrough

 

[Captsteve427]

Not trying to side rail the conversation but I don't get the 100% glass enclosure that folks love now. I think it looks great and sometimes makes sense but you really get no outdoor exposure, right? I get not having to deal with the canvas and isinglass anymore, nothing would make me happier.

For me, having owned 10-boats since I bought my first boat at 18yo, 40-years ago, I'm know considering one of these "coupe style" boats that lower the effort required to get the boat ready for a trip and then close it up afterward. We are traveling more than ever this season and this style boat offers a lot more creature comforts, with less of an effort. There is still a cockpit and forward sun pad when you want some vitamin D. I also like that its a galley-up layout, so you're really only in the dungeon when you're in the head, or sleeping. I wish it was 4' bigger.

 

[b_arrington]

Really not a fan of that 400 Coupe above. In general, don't like the highly raked front windows of the coupe style.

I am, however, a huge fan of the full glass cockpit and the way it simplifies my boating. Instead of struggling with the canvas, I just lower the shades and lock the door. Easy. Meanwhile my inlaws 2 slips over in their 270 DA are cursing that their canvas shrunk and another zipper broke.

Yes, with the full glass you don't get the "wind in your face" boating experience. But if you're doing a lot of distance boating it may be an excellent trade off. You get real wipers, weather protection, and that close up and go convenience. I almost always have my side window open so I still get the airflow. On a really hot day I run my AC units, and the solid pilothouse holds in the cooler air better.

All these things you mention is why I went to a different brand. I've got most of what you listed in my Back Cove 37, but with a single engine. It handles very well at the dock with the bow and stern thrusters. The second stateroom is a bit on the small side, and it has a single head. To get 2 heads and a bigger 2nd stateroom you could look at at Back Cove 41. I have a friend that operates his BC 41 from Juneau Alaska, and goes all over the place up there. He regularly has guests and spends multiple days traveling on his boat.

 

[b_arrington]

Not trying to side rail the conversation but I don't get the 100% glass enclosure that folks love now. I think it looks great and sometimes makes sense but you really get no outdoor exposure, right? I get not having to deal with the canvas and isinglass anymore, nothing would make me happier.

I really don't miss dealing with the canvas. At. All.

To get outdoor exposure I open a window. Or sit in the cockpit.

 

[jmcdboater]

I can’t comment on the pods discussion, but I’ll offer a few opinions for you all to beat down…..

A few years ago we lived in Tucson, AZ, and decided to move to CA for my final five years of working. My wife says: Rather than sell our house here and try to buy it CA ($$$$), why don’t we rent our house here and buy a boat to live on in CA? (At which point I remembered why I fought so hard to marry her 20 yrs before.)

So we bought what we could afford, a 1990 SeaRay 440 Motoryacht. Ended 4 years ago, was absolutely the best five years of my entire life, barring the years with our sons.

The vessel had doors off the cockpit that we could lock and walk away, but we still did have the isinglass that we had to maintain. We would not buy a vessel with a complete glass enclosure, the ‘outside & open air’ on the rear cockpit is worth the isinglass hassles in our opinions. Obviously not everyone will agree, but give that a lot of thought. We could lock the entrance doors, now obviously people could have popped snaps and gotten on the boat, we were in a marina with other liveaboads, and so everyone looked out for each other. Never had an issue.

We had a large swim step right a water level, and had a Weaver Davit system for the dink. We bought a hard-bottom Avon with a small outboard. Loved, loved, loved the Dink, hated the Davit system. Would absolutely do it again, but ONLY with a hydraulic rear platform for the dink.

 

[Carver370]

Take a look at the late model 460 or 510 Sundancer.

These were built with both pods and V-drives. In my opinion, a much better boat than the late model 400.

I have run a number of boats with the inboard joystick system (Carver C52, C40, Tiara 53 Fly) including a 400 Sundancer. It operates slightly different than Zeus or IPS but is still very intuitive and you can run the boat just as you would any other if you want.

 

[Avenger]

We are in a very similar situation with the addition that we also want a three stateroom layout. Sea Ray is limited if you don't want a bridge which we don't. I have been looking very hard at the Riviera 4700. It checks every box you mentioned and is equipped with straight shaft cat c-12's. I have been on several Riviera's and the fit and finish is top notch.

If this boat was located in proximity to the Great Lakes I dare say we would own it.

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2009-riviera-4700-sport-yacht-8302729/

 

[mrsrobinson]

Ok, ok, ok - SOLD, all glass it is

 

[FootballFan]

This is the fun stuff, when you start to think about the next boat. As we have transitioned across boats we always approached it with a list of requirements we wanted on the next boat. Our movement between boats has never been to a specific model decided on in advance, rather to a boat which best met our requirements. There is never the perfect match, as your requirements get more specific, there will be compromises.

Two boats previous to the one we have now required the putting the canvas up when we left the boat. I get it, got tired of that. We don't deal with that on this boat, just lock the door and go. BTW, you can achieve that with a bridge boat as we did.

The systems which provide a joystick interface on top of standard drive systems (straight or V) and bow/stern thrusters have been around for a while. I have never been a fan since they seem like a layer of complexity which would be a head ache to maintain. Never operated a boat with this type of system.

We did charter a bare boat a couple of years ago that was pod drive (Volvo IPS). Oh my goodness, after running that boat for a week I understand why people are attracted to it. The maneuvers which I could do, not so much because I needed to - mostly just because I could, were over the top.

That said, I would not buy a boat today with pods, of any brand. Too many friends with bad experiences which I have direct first hand knowledge. Maybe down the road the technology gets more stable, not for me right now.

 

[Captsteve427]

We are in a very similar situation with the addition that we also want a three stateroom layout. Sea Ray is limited if you don't want a bridge which we don't. I have been looking very hard at the Riviera 4700. It checks every box you mentioned and is equipped with straight shaft cat c-12's. I have been on several Riviera's and the fit and finish is top notch.

If this boat was located in proximity to the Great Lakes I dare say we would own it.

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2009-riviera-4700-sport-yacht-8302729/

Funny you mentioned Riviera.... I ran across an 09 4400 that started this whole "coupe" thing for me, but it was POD driven. I thought all of their boats were POD driven since they came out in the mid 2000's.