Cat 3196 aftercooler retrofit

E

earthmover17

New Member
Jan 3, 2008
706
land o lakes florida
Boat Info
560 sedan bridge
Engines
cat 3196
It is a given that the aftercoolers on these engines are the weak link. While pondering this weekend about this I thought I might research the possibility of building a seperate cooling system just for the aftercooler.
The way I think this would work would be to use a seperate pump and heat exchanger and use antifreeze thru the aftercooler instead of sea water. It would seem to me if you had a closed system you would be able to moniter the level of the antifreeze to watch for a cooler failure. As it is now if the cooler fails you don't know it until catastropic failure of the engine. I would much rather ingest antifreeze than seawater if I lost an aftercooler.
I don't profess to be smarter than Cat engineers but there should be a solution for the 3196's aftercoolers failure other than replacing the engines once they leak.
Ideally cooling the fresh induction air with air would be my choice but I can't seem to put that together in my head. It would also take a different aftercooler which I don't know if Cat offers one.
Any thoughts?

Jack
 
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Interesting thoughts there my friend. The hundreds of Cat engines I been through over the years, after coolers have been a component that have typically meet re usable guide lines. Now I'm referring to mostly equipment and on highway truck engines. I have been involved with a few marine engines in the past.

I believe Jacket Water After cooled(JWAC) is what your thinking? Air to Air After cooler(ATAC) is the other system you mentioned.

Post your engines ser#'s and performance spec # and I’d like to give this some thought and research. Right now the wife’s got me working!

Something to ponder over: for every 1* you cool in intake air, you'll see 3* cooler exhaust temps.... JWAC worked well for a lota years, demand for higher HP lead to ATAC.
...Ron
 
Ron,
I appreciate the reply. I will get the info. I have recently had both of my aftercoolers pressure tested with no issues so I should be OK.
I am with you that an aftercooler( if built properly) should virtually never have an issue. I just don't like the idea of not being able to know if I have an issue other than my engine failing.
Caterpillar 3196 2XR01216 2XR01230 Specs. to follow.

Jack
 
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Jack: Did a little looking into the aftercooler thing. I believe your engine ser #s are 2XR...? Looks as one aftercooler fits all HP models.

That system you described in your first post is Auxiliary Water After Cooled, AWAC. As far as a heat exchanger, I read a publication that mentioned a "keel heat exchanger" Is that an available option for your boat? ...Ron
 
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It's not a possibility on my boat. Although from what I've read it's a very reliable system. I was nosing around my bilge today and I think what I'm trying to do is possible. I just have to figure out the liquid flows and see if they make a heat exchanger big enough.
Thanks for the research.

Jack
 
Jack: just a thought here. This may have been discussed here before in the long past. Do you have any type of drains installed on your aftercoolers? Also do you have the latest brass adapters on your current aftercooler? ...Ron
 
BonBini said:
Jack: just a thought here. This may have been discussed here before in the long past. Do you have any type of drains installed on your aftercoolers? Also do you have the latest brass adapters on your current aftercooler? ...Ron
Click to expand...

There is a drain system at the rear of the aftercooler that is coupled into something else ( can't remember what) that I was told if there was ever salt at the bottom of it the aftercooler is bad. I check it daily.
As for adapters if you mean the inlet and outlet fittings yes those are brass. I just had my starboard side out for cleaning and a pressure test so I recently have had them in my hands. I didn't know there was anything else.
I would love to know what fails on these. Is it the aftercooler itself or the inlet outlet fittings that go bad.
As I said earlier I would rather have air to air If they made an aftercooler for a machine or truck application.
Not to go on and on but it seems to me that a company like Cat could have figured this out. I'm just an old excavating guy and I have thought of a couple ways to fix this. The money they spent on replacing engines and redoing the aftercoolers the wrong way doesn't make sense.

Jack
 
Jack: from what I'm understanding, the failure seems to be sea water induced corrosion at the water in/out adapters to aftercooler core joint seal. Routine maintenance inspection is needed. Sounds like your up on all that.

Also I believe those drain hoses can be installed on either end of the aftercooler plenum pending the angle of installed engine. I don't know which end your's are installed on, but if they were close to the adapters that would seem to give the earliest sign of trouble.

Aftercooling: Was looking at dyno and sea trial test results on 2XR... 667HP @ 2300, turbo compressor outlet temp 325*F @120*F inlet air temp, inlet air manifold air temp 125*F @ 85*F aftercooler sea water inlet temp.

Air to Air aftercooling: I'm thinking the aftercooler would have to be very large(size of a semi truck radiator grill). Then a fan! Also operating in engine room temps of 120*F ish.

I did see that Cat offers a keel cooled setup on a lot of there marine engine packs. I guess the boat manufacturer has the final say on what engine pack they order for a given build.

Just thought you might fine some of those temps interesting.

I did see a test with 150*F jacket water plumbed through the aftercooler resulting in inlet air manifold air temp being 210*F @ rated. 210* is still a bit hot IMHO. I believe 115* would be ideal. ...Ron
 
keep a close watch on the condensation drains. the dopes at cat. orig. placed the drains in the wrong end of the unit. this alowed the condensation to build and puddle in the unit untill we slowed and came down from plane. Then that moisture rolled foreward and into the intake and screwed me big time. Main bearings and up rebuild. because of the way the tec. worded his report. my extended warr co. denied the claim. over 50 g out of pocket. and thats after i removed the salon and engine hatch myself. They read it as sea water induction( like i sank it while running ) . suit pending aginst warr co.
 
Lady Ashley: Do your drains dump to bilge or is there some kind of collection devise? ...Ron
 
Ashley,
You are showing 3406's. Were the 3196's in a different boat?
You must have really injested some seawater to take out the Main bearings. I believe you can do a minor (pistons, liners and heads) with the engine still in the boat. It's a shame it got to your mains.
My drains are at the rear and nothing ever really comes out of them.
I really watch my engines and oil sample them to death for fear of a problem. I think I am overly nervous as my engines have served me well.

Jack
 
Hi,

Could I ask you to have a look at my thread 'Hello from a new member'

Although I have 3126's I get the feeling from your description that I have a similar aftercooler problem. Both mine have cracked at the seam that joins the bronze (surely not brass) header tank to the main steel tank. My leaks were external (I'm pretty sure) and I'm having a go at getting them repaired. Take a look at the photos and see what you think.

Regards,

JT.
 
JT,

I suggest you re-post in a seperate thread, with a subject specific to your concerns. We have a few resident experts here who I am sure can offer you assistance.
 
hey ron sorry for the delay. they drain in the bilge. its not alot of water at all .. every start the drains open..... drain condensation .... then close. in a warm engine room it mostly evaporates
 
it wasent sea water...... the drains were orig. installed on the wrong ( or as cat put it. not optimal possition) the front. this allowed condensation to build and pool in the lowest aera. over time coming off plane it rolled foreward and in the engine. i noticed the rpm's strugling to keep pace with the other engine.... i orig thought i had a turbo issue. the cat tec saw where the drains were installed instantly. got the scope out and well.... total rebuild
 
earthmover17 said:
I know about the class action law suit.
Please elaborate on what happened to your engines.

Jack
Click to expand...

Check out my intro thread. I posted photos and tried to upload oil samples.

In short, glazed cylinders, massive blowby, both sides.

I can send you the oil analysis which really tells the story...forum limits the size of uploads, so I will have to e-mail it to you.

Learned a lot about diesel engines going through this process!

Sea Ray was great, Caterpillar corporate was great...but I learned lessons about how different the Cat franchises can be.
 
I read the Intro thread and still don't understand. You said glazed cylinder walls. Did you have antifreeze leak into the oil via a cooler? It's very odd that both engines would self destruct at the same time.
I gotta know what happened.

Jack
 
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