Cat 3116 350HP - Good, Yes or No?

D

dbriceno

New Member
Dec 21, 2009
12
Long Island Sound
Boat Info
40 Sedan Bridge
Engines
Diesels
I've been told by many to run from these cat engines, though I just saw a nice 1997 40 sedan with a pair of them with 860hrs. What do I do?
 
You wish that you had joined CSR before all the diesel guys jumped ship.
 
Not ALL the diesel guys jumped ship and I know some are at least monitoring the site. I'm not familiar with those engines so I can't offer an opinion. In any event, the diesel guy you want most to weigh in is Frank Webster.....I'm sure he will advise when he sees your question.
 
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Here's what David Pascoe has to say about the Cat 3116 in his book Mid-Sized Power Boats:

"Cat 3116: Making its appearance in 1988, the 3116 is no longer offered as a marine engine. The engine was fraught with serious valve train and cooling system problems about which Catepillar did less than a commendable job on living up to their warranties. Virtually every boat with these engines that I did surveys on proved to have serious engine problems. Mark this one as an engine to avoid." David Pascoe, Mid-Size Power Boats, Ch. 9, p. 261.

If it were me I'd pass without a doubt, unless I were buying with the intent to repower anyway and I liked the boat otherwise.

Jeff
 
By the way, where did all the diesel guys go; which forums do they frequent?
 
Mhtimber, I don't know when Pascoe wrote that but everything I have heard and seen cat stood by these engines in a big way. I just recently bought my boat with cat 3126 (basically the same eng. with higher hp). Cat replaced both engines in 2002 under warr. with no cost to the then second owners. Cat had 2 problems with these engs. First they got a bad batch of blocks from France and these engs. failed pretty quickly (most within about 125-150 hrs. I think) Cat replaced these engs. Second they had some bad valves from trw which also resulted in replacing those engs. The people I bought my boat said cat was wonderful throughout the process and he continued to use the cat dealer for service for many years 'till I became the owner. Both of these failures were dealt with up to about 2006,when because it had been so long since one failed they determined all the affected engs. had been dealt with.
I wanted the cat engs. because they were the cleanest diesels I had seen and because of the great fuel economy they offer. When I had my survey and oil anaylsis, everything came back perfect, and the cat mechanic made it a point to tell me what great engs. I have. My boat and engs. passed sea trail with flying colors. I repeat. I wanted these engines.
Now of course nothing is perfect or garrented in this world and ANY eng. manufacturer can have failures. There is a member on this site who had a 3116 fail last year (can't remember who right now but he may respond also) From what I gathered, he got some relief from cat even tho his engs. were years out of warr. (hopefully I'm not wrong about that!) . Fwebster is an expert on the cat engs. and hopefully he will add to this with better facts...Ric
 
I have Cat 3126 420hp.... My boat was built in '97 as a '98 model. Cat replaced the engines (blocks) in 2002 with P.O.
They have been very dependable for me for the last 3 years with 977 total hours of which 600 hours is since replacement.
 
I do not have Mr. Pascoe's book but I have read several excerpts from it. Has he ever said anything good about a Sea Ray or any of Sea Ray's major suppliers?

Disclaimer....1.) Sorry I am Slightly off topic. 2.) I have absolutly NO experience in this area, only what I read.
 
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Normally I do not get into these discussions BUT, Pascoe or what ever his name is ? Iam not going into this. FrankW will chime in about the Cat 3116. OP, Please do a search on this board and you will find everything you need to know to make an informed decision. Read everything FrankW says about them twice. Pasco, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
katricol said:
Mhtimber, I don't know when Pascoe wrote that but everything I have heard and seen cat stood by these engines in a big way. I just recently bought my boat with cat 3126 (basically the same eng. with higher hp).

Hi Katricol, thanks for the input. Pascoe references the 3126 as well and notes that it had performed well up to the time he wrote the book; he particularly noted the lower rpm (2800) than other light duty engines and that it produced 347 HP at cruising speed of 2400 RPM, pretty impressive considering he states that it develops 350 HP at 2800 RPM.

I did not mean to cast doubt on all Cat engines; Cat has a long and successful history on and off the water. I had a Cat diesel (Perkins block) in my band saw mill and it was a real work horse.

Jeff
Click to expand...
 
This post has mentioned most of the related Cat. 3116 problems. The particular engines you are considering may be fine but you need to think about the "day you sell" on the day you buy a boat. The stigma will remain with these engines and you run into these same issues when you sell. Prospective buyers will be beating you down on this issue.... I recommend you pass on this one.
 
mwph said:
I do not have Mr. Pascoe's book but I have read several excerpts from it. Has he ever said anything good about a Sea Ray or any of Sea Ray's major suppliers?

Disclaimer....1.) Sorry I am Slightly off topic. 2.) I have absolutly NO experience in this area, only what I read.
Click to expand...

In terms of the engine thread, he was writing his experiences with all the major gas and diesel engine 'marinizers' and each of their major engine models. With most manufacturers, Cat included, he had both positive and negative input depending on the particular engine.

Clearly he has thing for Sea Ray; interestingly though, when comparing Sea Ray to other brands he rates them as a mid-level builder rather than entry level or high-quality.

I was surprised by some of his groupings, a few in each category listed below:

Entry level (some may surprise you): Formula, Trojan, Wellcraft, Mainship, Carver, Chris Craft, Doral, Chapparal, Four Winns; Bayliner; and about a dozen other brands.

Mid level: Sea Ray, Egg Harbor, Luhrs (Post 192), Chris Craft (Pre 1980), Pursuit, Post Marine, Viking; and a half dozen more or so.

High quality: Bertram, Blackfin, Buddy Davis, Grand Banks, Hatteras, Hinckley, Sabreline; Tiara; others.

Pascoe writes a lot about sport fishing boats and those intended for serious offshore, rugged use.

While I don't like a lot of what he says about Sea Ray I do agree with most of it when looking at the facts. That doesn't mean Sea Ray doesn't make a good boat; having owned three of them I think they make a very good boat for the money. You can buy a better boat than Sea Ray, but you'll also pay almost twice as much if not more for the 'high quality' brands Pascoe lists; really nice boats, those expensive ones, but you'll loose more in depreciation than the Sea Ray costs new! To each his own, how ever it fits in the budget.
 
I had a '96 450 Dancer with 3116's. One was repalced by Cat under warrenty when ther boat was a year old with 300 hrs on it. The replaced engine had heating problems for a while. A wrench happy mechanic tore the engine down thinking the head was cracked. It took forever to get the valves and timing adjusted. When this finally happened, the engines performed fine until I traded it. 'Had about 1200 hrs on both. I say, with care the engines hold up, but be cautious. Have them checked out carefully.
 
Pascoe??? don't like his writings at all and have read many, jerk pops into my head. light duty ? cat 3116 and 3126 are medium duty. Ncboater.. I disagree. In my opinion these engines are sought-after all over the world once you know you don't have a "bad" one. I could use a little help here Frank. Ric
 
For crap engines the two that I have do GREAT. Over 1700 hours and going strong. Pasco does one thing very well and that's sell his own books. He has his point of view and thats fine, I do not agree with him at all.
 
I was in Peoria Ill at Cat instructor training class when I was introduced to the 3116. These engines went through the normal manufacturing problems as earlier mentioned.

What started out as a light weight (medium duty) 6.6L 185 hp engine, made it all the way to a 7.2L 435 hp sleeper. In my book this engine is one tough little bitch. The basic engine has remained the same. It was a new corrugated parent bore block design that could hold an awful lot of power.

I would not shy away from a 350 horse 3116. One big thing that was a problem for this series engine was some of the techs working on them. Cat new this going into production and tried to get the product support training out. There are specific skills and tooling needed to do routine overhead maintainance. And the overheads are where this little engine had a big percentage of self inflicted problems.

Cats love to work. Starting them up just to listen to them will foul the valve guides, top ring lands and turbo compressor housing.

If you decide to pursue this boat, hire a Cat tech, they charge a little more for a reason. ... Ron
 
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With respect to the OP's question on 350hp 3116's, there is no reason to shy away from this engine, unless your engine surveyor finds some reason to do so.

In the 1996 to about 1998 time period, Caterpillar had a problem with some valves supplied by TRW, their OEM vendor. The valves did not meet Cat's spec for hardness and the valves were prone to dropping in to the cylinder when the engine was under load. The valve problem only occurred on engine serial numbers later than 6600 and not all installed valves were affected. If an owner was going to have a problem with soft valves, it usually occurred at about 125 hours and no later then 175 hours. That means that any 3116 exhibiting 800 hours is almost certainly exempt from the valve problem.

One of the unfortunate things about forums and the ability to publish free information on the internet to sell other products and services is that a lot of what you read is imbellished, exaggarated, made up, or just plain BS. Frequently you read that the 3116 engine had "soft blocks from France". This isn't true.......some 3126 (not 3116) blocks were cast in a foundry in France with the wrong metalurgy the eventually led to premature cylinder wear. This problem is quite easy to identify by casting numbers/letters on the blocks and by having your engine surveyor do a blow-by test on the engines.

Again, contrary to what you may read on the internet, Caterpillar was very good about repairing or replacing all the affected (Valves or soft block 3126's)engines. Every owner who had done normal maintenance and had not abused his engines was made whole on the engine failures.....frequently Caterpillar replaced both engines to make owners happy when only one engine failed. Caterpillar even extended their normal warranty to cover the block or valve problems until about 2005, which in some cases was 2X the normal warranty period for major components.

Don't buy anybody's 800 hour diesel engines without a complete engine survey. With Caterpillars, use a Caterpillar franchised dealer because they are trained and competent and because they have access to all the service records for any repairs done by Cat. and because they are equipped to do a blow-by test, which is proprietary to Caterpillar.

Sometimes mechanical things will fail, but most problems with the 3116 can be directly traced to abuse by the operator.......overheating or running the engines in an overloaded condition. Even worse, many of the valve or overhead failures are the direct result of failing to reset the engine overheads according to Caterpillar's recommended service schedule. The reason is quite simple.......as the valve seat wears, the valve gets tighter or loses some of its lash or clearance. That makes the valve open sooner, open further and stay open longer and that can significantly increase the chances of a valve hitting a piston, particuarly when rpm recommendations are not followed. When a valve hits a piston in an engine with a 21:1 compression ratio in a loaded condition, the result isn't pretty and certainly isn't easy or cheap to fix.

In summary, get a survey, follow Caterpillar's recommended service schedule, use Cat parts and filters and there is no reason you cannot enjoy one of the most efficient, trouble free and cleanest burning mid sized diesel engines Sea Ray ever chose to use.
 
Frank,

Again, you are the man! How do you come up with all this info?
 
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