Carbon Monoxide anyone?

D

djbaumhover

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
19
Mississippi River, Dubuque, Iowa
Boat Info
2004 300 Sundancer
Engines
twin 6.2L Merc, Bravo III drives
I've posted this before, but have never received much feedback. Sea Ray claims no knowledge of incidents. Two years ago this coming Labor Day, my first mate and I experienced carbon monoxide poisoning. Thank the Lord we were boating with a group, as we both passed out and others had to rescue us. I have an '04 300 Dancer with Bravo III's. It was a cool day, side curtains up, aft curtain down, travelling upriver at slow speed, into a head wind. The gennie was not running. I've since tried to find where the poison is coming from. I've tightened engine exhaust hose clamp connections and made visual inspections of the engine compartment. I've placed a battery operated CO detector on my dash. It frequently continues to register high readings while underway, even with side curtains off. On occasion, the cabin CO detector will also sound. I always have the biminis up that are fore and aft of the radar arch, but seldom the longer aft top.
Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas what to check and/or how to proceed?
 
I've experienced higher CO level in my 320DA on few occasions, but it was not a problem to mange it and ventilate the area.

When you say "...I always have the biminis up that are fore and aft of the radar arch, but seldom the longer aft top..." do you mean that while underway your front and side curtains are off and you still have CO detector going off?
 
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This is due to the "station wagon effect" of engine exhaust comming up from the water and into the cockpit/cabin. It is likely nothing in your bilge. I never boat with any side canvas on and a couple of seasons ago experienced a similar condition (fequent alarms from cabin detector even with door closed, wife swore she could smell fumes and "felt sick", noticed more "smoke" at idle than other boats had) Ultimately, I found out I was "running rich" because of cool fuel 3 issues. When I fixed the problem my emissions went down, my alarm stopped sounding, and my wife stopped complaining!
 
I have the same "station wagon effect" problem at no-wake speed even with one of the windshield pieces removed and the aft curtain removed. You need to get really good airflow moving throught the cockpot to prevent this from happening.
 
I think a LOT of boaters would be scared if they put a CO detector on their helm. Low speeds with the windshield and side curtains on and no aft curtain is just asking for it.
 
I tend to think this is a bigger issue than we might think. I was concerned about CO on my 280 so I placed a battery operated, digital monitor at 3 locations in the cockpit this past July before we sold. I measured with no canvas installed at no wake speed, slow cruise, idling and WOT. I also measured while anchored with the generator running. I was shocked at the low speed and idling CO levels. I can update later with the exact numbers but using the OSHA guidelines, the levels on the rear bench were at levels allowed for 15 minutes of exposure...high enough that the portable monitor made an audible alarm. The forward lounge was at 1 hour of exposure and the helm only slightly higher. Slow cruise and WOT were a non-factor without the canvas. I ran the gen for 2 hours at anchor and the monitor didn't even register CO anywhere in the cockpit or cabin.
 
This not a Sea Ray problem. It is a potential problem with every boat and with your daddy's 1973 station wagon, hence the "station wagon" effect.

[video=youtube_share;h7Gqvu_Z5vc]http://youtu.be/h7Gqvu_Z5vc[/video]
 
Alex F said:
I've experienced higher CO level in my 320DA on few occasions, but it was not a problem to mange it and ventilate the area.

When you say "...I always have the biminis up that are fore and aft of the radar arch, but seldom the longer aft top..." do you mean that while underway your front and side curtains are off and you still have CO detector going off?
Click to expand...

Yes, with front and side curtains down, I still get the cockpit CO sounding. This isn't everytime I boat, and I'm thinking the wind direction has a impact on it at times as well.
 
Tonka Boater said:
I tend to think this is a bigger issue than we might think. I was concerned about CO on my 280 so I placed a battery operated, digital monitor at 3 locations in the cockpit this past July before we sold. I measured with no canvas installed at no wake speed, slow cruise, idling and WOT. I also measured while anchored with the generator running. I was shocked at the low speed and idling CO levels. I can update later with the exact numbers but using the OSHA guidelines, the levels on the rear bench were at levels allowed for 15 minutes of exposure...high enough that the portable monitor made an audible alarm. The forward lounge was at 1 hour of exposure and the helm only slightly higher. Slow cruise and WOT were a non-factor without the canvas. I ran the gen for 2 hours at anchor and the monitor didn't even register CO anywhere in the cockpit or cabin.
Click to expand...

I think you're correct about this being a universal problem. After my incident, several of my dock neighbors indicated they were going to install CO dectectors in their cockpits, however, I don't think many did. I'm going to ask one of them to take my dectector and see what they experience. Thanks for your reply.......
 
djbaumhover said:
Yes, with front and side curtains down, I still get the cockpit CO sounding. This isn't everytime I boat, and I'm thinking the wind direction has a impact on it at times as well.
Click to expand...

The wind direction definitely creates an affect, but IMO you need to have aft curtain open to allow proper fresh air circulation. Front and aft curtains are the key elements here.
 
djbaumhover said:
I've posted this before, but have never received much feedback. Sea Ray claims no knowledge of incidents. Two years ago this coming Labor Day, my first mate and I experienced carbon monoxide poisoning. Thank the Lord we were boating with a group, as we both passed out and others had to rescue us. I have an '04 300 Dancer with Bravo III's. It was a cool day, side curtains up, aft curtain down, travelling upriver at slow speed, into a head wind. The gennie was not running. I've since tried to find where the poison is coming from. I've tightened engine exhaust hose clamp connections and made visual inspections of the engine compartment. I've placed a battery operated CO detector on my dash. It frequently continues to register high readings while underway, even with side curtains off. On occasion, the cabin CO detector will also sound. I always have the biminis up that are fore and aft of the radar arch, but seldom the longer aft top.
Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas what to check and/or how to proceed?
Click to expand...


http://www.detectcarbonmonoxide.com/

I use this all around the boat and as a backup of the xintex on board CO detectors. May surprise you watching the real time CO levels.
 
CO detectors are only the tool to help one confirm that there's a problem and to what extend (regardless, having them at the helm is a great idea, I had it as well on my 320). However, they don't do anything to solve it. To fix the issue you need to have good fresh air flow and make sure your engines are tuned correctly to produce minimum CO exhaust (see Mike's post).
 
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You say with the windshield and side curtains on, and no aft curtain is "asking for it". The tag attached on the aft curtain by the company who makes these for Sea Ray warns one should not travel with the aft curtain up - how does this figure then?
 
djbaumhover said:
You say with the windshield and side curtains on, and no aft curtain is "asking for it". The tag attached on the aft curtain by the company who makes these for Sea Ray warns one should not travel with the aft curtain up - how does this figure then?
Click to expand...

Aft curtain up can make it even worse, with the aft curtain off you get the 'station wagon' effect, with it on you get the 'suffocating in the garage with the motor running' effect if CO can get in there. By saying not to run it with the rear curtain doesnt imply its OK to run it with it off.
 
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I also have a portable CO detector (I keep it on my 48, a diesel boat) that has a readout - I believe the Xintex detectors on most Sea Rays go off at 30-35ppm (enough to cause a headache and dizziness in 6-8 hours of exposure) but it's nice to be able to walk around with a portable detector and get actual readings in different locations. Whether it be from a station wagon effect or neighbor in a tie up (or a problem on your own boat) CO is very dangerous, especially because it is colorless and odorless. In my case I went with an even more commercial unit, I like it because it gives an instant ppm reading, audible alert and Green/Yellow/Red lights to accompany. It's amazing but at least 2-3 times every summer someone in our tie up (or me) ends up needing/using it. Of course, as someone else pointed out, detecting doesn't solve the problem, but at least detecting (and awareness) is a start.

PS - I'm a CGAUX Vessel Examiner, it's amazing how often I inspect a boat and find one or more non-functional CO detectors and the owner doesn't seem very concerned about that fact. Every year there a CO deaths, in extreme cases the ppm often exceed 10,000. At those levels death can occur in less than three minutes. The Coast Guard has a good page on CO dangers:
http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/carbon_monoxide.aspx

Regards,
Capt. Jason
 
I suffered from CO poisoning when I was 18 after going into the cabin of a 32' Chris Craft to "sit with" my girlfriend. We were in the cabin for a couple of hours then minutes after we pulled into the dock she passed out and I had to crawl since I could no longer stand. Off to the hospital in an ambulance with lots of oxygen then as the doctor said would happen the pounding headache later that night was brutal! When I had the 320 I ran with the forward hatch open and cabin door closed to provide positive pressure so the CO could not drop down in there. The vent being open helped keep the cockpit clear a bit. Trust me, you do not want to have this happen to you. They told me there are 3 stages: 1. A bit dizzy or disoriented. 2. Pass out. 3. Death. We had basically hit number 2 so if the trip was all of the way back to our marina we would have never woke up. Be VERY careful about CO levels and don't take it lightly. (off of soapbox now)
 
jff said:
I also have a portable CO detector (I keep it on my 48, a diesel boat) that has a readout - I believe the Xintex detectors on most Sea Rays go off at 30-35ppm (enough to cause a headache and dizziness in 6-8 hours of exposure) but it's nice to be able to walk around with a portable detector and get actual readings in different locations. Whether it be from a station wagon effect or neighbor in a tie up (or a problem on your own boat) CO is very dangerous, especially because it is colorless and odorless. In my case I went with an even more commercial unit, I like it because it gives an instant ppm reading, audible alert and Green/Yellow/Red lights to accompany. It's amazing but at least 2-3 times every summer someone in our tie up (or me) ends up needing/using it. Of course, as someone else pointed out, detecting doesn't solve the problem, but at least detecting (and awareness) is a start.

PS - I'm a CGAUX Vessel Examiner, it's amazing how often I inspect a boat and find one or more non-functional CO detectors and the owner doesn't seem very concerned about that fact. Every year there a CO deaths, in extreme cases the ppm often exceed 10,000. At those levels death can occur in less than three minutes. The Coast Guard has a good page on CO dangers:
http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/carbon_monoxide.aspx

Regards,
Capt. Jason
Click to expand...

Exactly why I bought the portable. Keeps track of conditions where you are. I often raft up with other boats and visit the other boats with Gennys running etc. Nice to know current co conditions. I take this stuff seriously and a little monitor hanging off my belt will alert me if there is an issue.
 
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