Captain's License

J

Joel_MD

Member
Jun 20, 2016
210
Chesapeake Bay
Boat Info
390 Motor Yacht, 2005
Engines
Cummins 480 CE
How many of you pleasure boating types have experienced getting a captain's license? I live in the Annapolis area and I know some semi-retired guys who work for local boat dealers to deliver new boats to customers and give "driving lessons" to new owners. Also I've spoken to TowBoat US about becoming a tow captain. I assume a delivery captain can get by with just a 6-Pack license, but for towing I understand one needs at least a 50-ton Master Mariner with an Assistance Towing endorsement. The Annapolis School of Seamanship has a 6-day course for $1,000 to get a 6-Pack, which seems like a good place to start. I understand the course is pretty rigorous, but the course is USCG-approved so there's no need to take a separate USCG exam.
 
I do not have direct experience with pursuing a captains license of any type but I am aware that having a captains license can significantly complicate liabilities if/when a licensed captain is pleasure boating. Understanding the exact conditions necessary to "create a charter" are exceedingly important for the licensed captain.

Once you've obtained the license pleasure boating will (should?) be substantially impacted if you ever have other passengers (friends or family). A friend brings a few beers on board and shares them with you and whamo....you're potentially "on the clock" even though you didn't intend to be.
 
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<"I do not have direct experience with pursuing a captains license of any type but I am aware that having a captains license can significantly complicate liabilities if/when a licensed captain is pleasure boating....">

A licensed captain (retired tug owner operator) told me the exact same thing. I thought the learning experience and the credentials would lend credence in the event of a mishap. Seems just the opposite is true. I quit pursuing it.
 
Documented sea time is the usual problem for pleasure boaters making the leap to a USCG captain's license.

I held a 100 tom Masters License for years, but let it lapse in 2008. Thanks to 9-11, the renewals became more work than it was worth since I never used it to generate income. The other factor for me is that the holder of a captains license is held to a higher liability standard than a non-license holder. I am safe and I'm not going to hurt anyone but the presumption that "He holds a license and he should have known how to avoid the accident" increases my liability exposure. The license served its purpose…..I learned a lot and even more in getting the sea time to qualify for the Masters ticket.

My advice is to find a Sea School in your area and get the 6 pack (you will learned a lot), but there isn't enough money in running boats for others to assume the liability assumption you should be held to a higher standard just because you have a license.
 
The club I used to keep my boat at offered course once a year, it's a week long and pretty rigorous. I never intend to do any type of boating "professionally or for pay" so I decided it wasn't really worth it to me. I was interested for the learning more so than having the license. I've continued to take Power Squadron courses etc - our marina hosts things like this a couple of times a year. Problem is, the things I am really interested in like navigation are hard to use and practice on a lake that you know like the back of your hand. If I boated in a coastal area or on the Great Lakes I might look back into it.
 
I've held my 50 Ton Master's license for over 7 years now. The course I took was in the evenings after work and ran 2 weeks I think. The school was USCG approved so at the end the tests could be conducted onsite. I had been boating for 35+ years at the time I took the course, but wow did it really show me how much I didn't know. I have taken charters out on my boat and have done delivery captain roles. I have taken a very expensive hobby and turned it into a money losing side business for tax purposes...lol
 
+1 on what Frank Webster said. I held a 100 ton Master for 15 years, but decided the renewal process just wasn't worth the effort, since I didn't really need the license.
 
The Bill Collector said:
I've held my 50 Ton Master's license for over 7 years now. The course I took was in the evenings after work and ran 2 weeks I think. The school was USCG approved so at the end the tests could be conducted onsite. I had been boating for 35+ years at the time I took the course, but wow did it really show me how much I didn't know. I have taken charters out on my boat and have done delivery captain roles. I have taken a very expensive hobby and turned it into a money losing side business for tax purposes...lol
Click to expand...
Thank you, this is the kind of reply I'm seeking.

Is it difficult to document your experience? I'm 47 and have been boating since I was a kid, but I certainly haven't kept a log book. My previous boat is long gone and I don't even know if I have any documents from it. I only got my Sea Ray this year but I'm taking it out a lot.
 
Joel, documenting your experience is pretty much on the honor system. You complete a chart of your hours on several forms to total your qualifying hours. I just obtained by six-pack license this past spring. While I understand the higher standard to which I am now held, I also have altered by boating behaviors to be more safe and in compliance. The studying that one must do to pass the exams is rigorous and there is a lot to learn. I had no plans of making money with it, and conversely it is quite costly to obtain once you factor in the physicals, drug testing, TWIC Card, and application fees, but it was on my bucket list. I have boated for 24 years and feel it is a worthwhile accomplishment for anyone that loves everything about boating.
Rob
 
I took the class this past spring and learned a lot. Received the license last month and yes it was costly. At the class, it was asked to the instructor if the license would increase liability. The instructor said a licensed captain has no more liability then anyone else who breaks the law. Laws and penalties are the same for everyone; but loss of license can occur. Yet, I can't help but to think a judge would scrutinize a captain more. One good thing, my boat insurance premium decreased.
 
You are all correct here.....I too would encourage everyone to do a seaschool or any other mariners class, but would hold back on holding a license, of course unless you need it for whatever "for hire" work you may want to undertake. I assure you, a judge or the USCG will hold you to a higher standard if you hold a license that implies "public trust". You and your buddy want to fly a Cessna around and have a hard landing, all liabilities are between you and him. Ask Capt. Sully (a real hero in my book) how intensely he was scrutinized by the NTSB even though he was solely responsible for saving over a hundred lives....he is a licensed pilot and held to a higher standard simply because each and every passenger onboard that day had an implied trust in his ability..and of course thank the Lord they had Sully. I know it is a movie but also watch Denzel in the flick "Flight", he too saved a bunch of lives and now sits in prison.

I'm in the ocean a lot and when Pan-Pan or even worse, Mayday, Mayday is announced, I have to respond within reason if I am near. This has happened to me and my morals and license told me to do the right thing. Can't imagine standing in front of a judge saying I did not want to respond so I kept going.

Bottom line......I see tons of folks on the water that scared the heck out me so the more education makes the waterways safer for us all, but to assume public trust when all you are doing is private boating opens a couple more doors that may not be in your best interest. And of course I would also suggest you obtain heavier coverage as protection for those who love to litigate.

Every circumstance is different and needs to be evaluated on a personal basis.....if you want to have a more indebt conversation on this, I will be happy to, please PM me.

Capt. Rusty
 
I got my 50 ton license about 8 years ago. I really enjoyed the class. It's amazing how much you really don't know. My intention is to one day use my license for a retirement gig.
As for the liability, I am not worried about being held to a higher standard. I pilot my boat in a very cautious way, and am always aware of my environment around me. I never drink while underway, and always take good care of my passengers.
 
I took the class in 2009 and wound up with a Master 50GT with a towing endorsement. I can't recommend the experience enough, as there is so much to learn out there. Getting the TWIC (Transportation Worker Identity Credential) was one of the hoops and hassles in the process, but that card later got me an invite and some time behind the sticks on a commercial tow boat. You never know where it could take you.

We had an attorney in our class who addressed the liability. His view was that, for the recreational boater, not being aware of the rules does not make one any less responsible for them. He also mentioned that he charges $295 an hour and would be happy to represent us, but I digress. My hope is to use the credential in the retirement years to keep me out of the house.
 
How stringent is the physical? Particularly with regards to color vision? FAA pilots medical has work around. How about USCG?
 
You color vision test is done by your doctor. My doctor had a book with colors in it and asked me what each color was. Next time you visit your doctor, ask to take the color test so to see if you can pass the CG physical.
 
Capt. Rusty Higgins said:
You are all correct here.....I too would encourage everyone to do a seaschool or any other mariners class, but would hold back on holding a license, of course unless you need it for whatever "for hire" work you may want to undertake. I assure you, a judge or the USCG will hold you to a higher standard if you hold a license that implies "public trust". You and your buddy want to fly a Cessna around and have a hard landing, all liabilities are between you and him. Ask Capt. Sully (a real hero in my book) how intensely he was scrutinized by the NTSB even though he was solely responsible for saving over a hundred lives....he is a licensed pilot and held to a higher standard simply because each and every passenger onboard that day had an implied trust in his ability..and of course thank the Lord they had Sully. I know it is a movie but also watch Denzel in the flick "Flight", he too saved a bunch of lives and now sits in prison.

I'm in the ocean a lot and when Pan-Pan or even worse, Mayday, Mayday is announced, I have to respond within reason if I am near. This has happened to me and my morals and license told me to do the right thing. Can't imagine standing in front of a judge saying I did not want to respond so I kept going.

Bottom line......I see tons of folks on the water that scared the heck out me so the more education makes the waterways safer for us all, but to assume public trust when all you are doing is private boating opens a couple more doors that may not be in your best interest. And of course I would also suggest you obtain heavier coverage as protection for those who love to litigate.

Every circumstance is different and needs to be evaluated on a personal basis.....if you want to have a more indebt conversation on this, I will be happy to, please PM me.

Capt. Rusty
Click to expand...

Let's look at a couple of things here and clear it up.

First of all, Capt Sullenberger was investigated by the NTSB as a matter of fact because he was the PIC on a 14 CFR Part 121 air carrier accident. If you want to believe a movie that was ginned up a bit for drama portraying the NTSB as "grilling" Sullenberger then so be it. The official NTSB report is out there with the facts.

Having conducted numerous aviation accident investigations and being trained by the Transportation Safety Institute, and working along side, and for the NTSB I can assure you the process in the movie doesn't happen as portrayed.

And the movie "Flight" is fiction.
 
CaptRonn said:
Let's look at a couple of things here and clear it up.

First of all, Capt Sullenberger was investigated by the NTSB as a matter of fact because he was the PIC on a 14 CFR Part 121 air carrier accident. If you want to believe a movie that was ginned up a bit for drama portraying the NTSB as "grilling" Sullenberger then so be it. The official NTSB report is out there with the facts.

Having conducted numerous aviation accident investigations and being trained by the Transportation Safety Institute, and working along side, and for the NTSB I can assure you the process in the movie doesn't happen as portrayed.

And the movie "Flight" is fiction.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I've read the NTSB report and I met and interviewed Sully last year. A true professional, but very different from the Tom Hanks character.

As for the Annapolis School for Seamanship, I've heard good things. I'm actually looking at them and an online option to take either the six pack or 25ton master course. It's mostly for my own knowledge. I do have the hours for the license.

The course is only one step. Make sure you read about the entire process. There's a physical, drug test, paperwork etc, character references. You also need a TWIC, which I already have.
 
I've been a professional mariner since 1980, over 35 yrs. Originally trained for commercial ship engineering (aka freighters/tankers etc) lack of work steered me to mega yacht engineering. I'm winding down my career now and think I've only got a few yrs until retirement. Maybe time to take up "enjoyment boating" lol.

Currently hold, and in process of renewal:
Chief Engineer, 3000 gross tons, oceans, motor, unlimited horsepower
Third Assistant Engineer, steam or motor, unlimited tonnage, unlimited horsepower
Master, steam or motor, 100 ton, domestic, w/commercial assistance towing
Also hold several ancillary endorsement documents, such as US DOT marine firefighting, ACCA HVAC technician State of Maine Stationary Engineer and State of Maine Inspection Mechanic

And yes, many yrs ago in school we were taught about the additional liability issue. Basically, in the event of a situation requiring an investigation, the C.G. will be looking for somebody to blame, and if you have a ticket you may be it. Be sure to CYA !!
 
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