Can someone explain outdrives for me?

P

ProfitOfDoom

New Member
Jan 7, 2010
188
Eastlake,OH
Boat Info
1987 268 Sundancer
Engines
454 Mercruiser/Bravo Three
Well tomorrow I will be giving the boat im after a final viewing before buying. Im gonna look through it and were going to start it up and all that good stuff and had a questions about outdrives.
This one comes with a bravo 3 and powered by a 454. Im looking up stuff on ebay from replacement lower units,uppers and just whole outdrives and they are Really expensive. The one on here looks really clean,not corroded looks like it was well kept but im just wondering what are some other outdrive options for the 454 could I just get a alpha 1,2 etc.?
Not that I think anything is wrong with this bravo 3,im just looking into the future and I know I will not be able to afford a new bravo 3 if I had to get a new outdrive for some reason.
 
That transom assembly requires a Bravo. Either a Bravo One or a Bravo III. A bravo III is more expensive to buy and fix, and more complex than a Bravo I. The Bravo III is more likely to incur electrolysis. The bravo III also has some handling and performance advantages over a Bravo I. These advantages will be significant in a 268.

Some things to look for: When standing at the back of the boat with the drive straight, gently try to wiggle it side to side. If there is any play, your gimbal assembly is wearing. The more play, the worse the problem. There should not be any play.

With the boat running, turn the wheel all the way to the left and right. There should not be a significant increase in noise or a growling sound. If there is, the u-joint is bad.

The drive in general should be smooth and quiet when the boat is running. They do make some noise, so it would be helpful to take someone who knows what a drive should sound like.

Drain at least a few ounces of oil from the bottom drain screw. No water should come out, and the oil should be a dark bluish green color. If it is milky it signals a bad seal and possibly damaged bearings or gears. If it smells burnt, is very black, or appears sparkly (put some on a paper towel to view for this), there are problems somewhere. These problems usually are not minor.
 
I've seen cut-a-way displays of Merc Alpha and Bravo drives and there is a definite difference regarding the size of the gears within the drives. Bravo I, II, or III are all designed with the massive gears - to withstand the increased torque of the larger engines.

I have not heard of any major issues with these drives. They seem to be relatively bullet proof - if fresh water anyway. Apparently, they have corrosion issues in salt water, but that probably won't be an issue for you in Ohio.

The Bravo III with its counter rotating dual props has some major advantages to the single prop I and II with regard to greater thrust, less torque steer, and easier dock manuverability (especially in reverse).

I had an older boat with a Bravo I/454 and never had issues. The Apha's used a "shift interrupt" feature that seemed to cause problems if it got out of adjustment, were the Bravo's didn't need to use "S.I." Alpha gears are of a lighter construction so Merc's solution was to put a system in place to "interrupt" the ignition power as the drive is placed in gear, causing the engine RPM's to fall, but not long enough to stall. Once in gear, power to the ignition would be restored without missing a beat. I've seen many Alpha equipped boats that have motors running fine - until they try to put it in gear, and it stalls. Many times it is the "S.I." to blame. I do not believe Bravo's require "S.I" due to those beefier gears that can take the full "whack" into gear under more torque without harm.

Just my opinion.
 
its a 1987 sundancer 268.
Its owned by a mechanic that takes extremely good care of his equipment as it shows in the boat,and turns out that my friend knows him and they belong to the same yacht club and vouches that he is a excellent mechanic and takes care of his stuff. I know all of this doesnt amount to a hill of beans,but im just going to look at the hull myself and listen to the engine and just have faith that everyone is honest "Wishful thinking I know" But it will be $500 for the survey,which I was going to have done until I found out my friend knows him and backed up everything he said. Its still not to late to have a survey and will if I have any doubt about the structure of the boat,but I know it has been serviced and maintained by a qualified person and not some backyard hack.
But im just wondering if 454 is married to the bravo 3 or can I change it to a more basic outdrive if needed in the future,Its just something I want to consider in my head if im not 100% sure of the purchase of this boat.
 
My older boat I was mentioning before was a 1989 268 Sundancer with 454/Bravo1.

As mentioned in a prior post, you cannot replace a Bravo with an Apha without major work. That being said, I don't think the BIII was even in production in 1987 - so this is not the original drive IMHO. You may want to ask the owner/mechanic what the story is with that.

The majority of these boats came with 350's in the mid 80's, but more 454's were ordered as time went on and the 350 was proving a bit light. They failed to change the drive with the engines until it was discovered that the Alpha's were getting chewed by the 454's so Bravo1's were starting to be more common starting in 1988. By 1989 you could not order a 454 without the BravoI.

One thing to check on this boat is water in the transom from the trim tab screws. Many did not get properly sealed - you don't want a mushy transom!
 
I ran a 454 Bravo three for 800 trouble free hours.
Never had a single problem with the motor or drive.
The thrust with the twin props is great and the 454 motor is hard to beat.
I know they are costly to fix or replace soo....at least have a marine mechanic check the engine and drive. A full survey should be done to lessen surprises.
Do not buy without a sea trial. Its still cold in Ohio isn't it?

Best of luck,
Mark.
 
One other thing.

I think you are able to change a Bravo III to a Bravo I or II (which would be much less). Not totally sure on this, but you can ask your mechanic.
 
ProfitOfDoom said:
its a 1987 sundancer 268.
Its owned by a mechanic that takes extremely good care of his equipment as it shows in the boat,and turns out that my friend knows him and they belong to the same yacht club and vouches that he is a excellent mechanic and takes care of his stuff. I know all of this doesnt amount to a hill of beans,but im just going to look at the hull myself and listen to the engine and just have faith that everyone is honest "Wishful thinking I know" But it will be $500 for the survey,which I was going to have done until I found out my friend knows him and backed up everything he said. Its still not to late to have a survey and will if I have any doubt about the structure of the boat,but I know it has been serviced and maintained by a qualified person and not some backyard hack.
But im just wondering if 454 is married to the bravo 3 or can I change it to a more basic outdrive if needed in the future,Its just something I want to consider in my head if im not 100% sure of the purchase of this boat.
Click to expand...

Somebody put a $6000 drive on that boat..
Make sure the boat next to it isnt missing its outdrive.
Be careful with your money.
 
I would go with the survey.
$500 now could turn into thousands later on.
:)
 
To answer your question..

According to www.sterndrives.com
"The Bravo Two will bolt up fine to a Bravo One or Bravo Three Gimbal."

So, looks like all bravo gimbals are the same.
 
Yes he says it did cost about that when I asked if he was firm on the price,and he said the 454/bravo 3 were retro fitted by professionals. Is there any problem with doing this?
 
No, there is not a problem with a retrofit, if it is done correctly. Did he just re-fit from an Alpha to a Bravo, or was the motor part of the re-fit? When was this done?

Also, the BI, BII, and BIII drives are interchangeable. The only difference between the three of them is the lower unit.

Make sure to effectively evaluate the structural components like the transom, stringers, hull, cockpit sole, and deck. Even if this guy has done a great job with the mechanicals, even many very "informed" boaters don't do a good job at prventing rot, or even recognizing its presence.
 
Where did the motor and drive come from? Were they new from Merc? Rebuilt? What model year is the motor/drive?
 
Dont know where they came from,but they are in fact both 99' and has around 500 hrs on them.
What would you say this motor outdrive combo would be worth?
 
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If it was a new package in '99 (I remeber that now from another thread), it is likely fuel injected, which is a big advantage. A '99 454 EFI BIII combination is far, far better than anything from the '80's. As far as worth.... It's not worth nearly as much as it would cost to do it. Boats are funny that way. But in '99 that drive, transom assembly, and motor could be had for around 14K. Then you have to put it in.
 
So there would be no reason for someone put thiscombo in this boat unless they really liked it correct? I mean the money of the gear exceeds the boat value,and im sure no one would add all this to a boat that is not sound to begin with. As long as it was taken care of it should be fine?
He told me of reasons why he is selling it,some personal reason and that he is down sizing. It all checked out,so I will check everything you guys mentioned as well as my weeks of web reading and will report with my finds tomorrow. If you can think of anything for me to check please let me know.
 
Sounds like you've talked yourself out of the survey - hope that works out for you. You're getting an idea of how much it costs to maintain and repair/replace components on a boat so in the long run $500 isn't that big of an issue. If it is then you may not be looking far enough ahead - boats are very expensive to own and maintain. At a minimum you should have the mechanic/owner run a compression check and do the drive exam mentioned earlier while you watch. Check for water stains in the bilge and make sure EVERYTHING works - including blige pumps, floats, etc work while you have it running. Make sure it's shifting correctly, starts easily, etc. Get maintenance records if he has them and try to get the background on why the engine/drive was replaced.

Now - to be honest - I didn't survey my boat when I got it. I felt comfortable with my review and got the boat for almost half of the book value so even if repairs were needed I would have been ok. That's a gamble I decided to take but if I were paying asking price or more money than I have in mine it wouldn't have been an option - I would have had a survey.

Good luck!
 
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