Can a leaking dive Shaft bellows do damage to the drive (Alpha 1 drive)

[suss1173]

I recently winterized my motors and fresh water system. I wanted to service the outdrives b/f winter layup. I was intimated to take them off myself, so I requested my local marina to service the drives for me. I was reluctant to have the marina do any work to the boat, but that is another subject and maybe another thread too...

The marna said the port outdrive had a leak and might need new bellows. I reminded them that the bellows were replaced on both drives in Jun 2014. After we visually inspected the bellows, it was clear the bellows were in good shape. However there was evidence of water intrusion. The gimbal bearing had some minor rust and the grease in the below was greenish- gray. This was enough evidence for me to believe/ agree that water had made its way into the bellow.

They said they would look further into it and get back to me... A few days later they said the hose clamp on the bellow was loose, and they put some adhesive and a new clamp on it. However they did not want to put the drive back on b/c they did not have a gimbal bearing in stock. I said that I actually had a gimbal bearing, would they use mine and get everything buttoned up for me? They said they wanted/ needed to "go through" the drive to inspect it for damage due to the water intrusion. I said OK. However there response of “needing to go through the drive” seemed odd. It felt like, at first, it was a matter of not having the gimbal bearing, then, when that was solved, it was they needed to go through the drive... Maybe it was just there way of putting it off and/or managing their time. However, it didn’t feel right to me.

At this point the boat is at my friends yard (not the marina) and the marina still has the drive. It is also worth mentioning that in August of 2014 they had that drive off to replace an oil seal and new yoke. Regarding the work that was done, the invoice states: Removed port out drive and resealed the upper driveshaft housing and installed a new U joint yoke.

I would like to know what damage (if any) could have been done to the drive from the water intrusion and what would need to be done to diagnose the possible damage.

 

[BillK2632]

I don't see how it could damage the drive, the gimbal bearing and u-joints yes, but not the drive. About all a leaking bellows can do is damage the gimbal bearing and possibly the u-joints. Once enough water get's in to wash the grease off the gimbal bearing, it's going to go quick, good news is they are cheap, so might as well replace it if you have even a little water. U-Joints would have to have been wet along time and start rusting pretty badly. I don't see how water in the bellows could get into the drive unless the bellows were leaking along time and somehow damaged the upper / yoke seals. Usually, it's the other way around, bad upper seals cause gear lube to leak into the bellows. Draining the drive lube would tell the story, if it has water in it, then there is a seal leaking somewhere, if not, I would say you are good. I would ask them exaclty what "inspection" they are doing.

 

[scoflaw]

That oil seal they replaced with a new yoke keeps oil from getting out, but water can get in. Check your drive for water sooner rather than later.

 

[suss1173]

Thanks guys. I didn't realize water could get into the drive. However if it did, than it would be due to that seal not being seated properly. If that's accurate, I'd assume any damage to the drive is on them- being they were in there a year ago., or is that not fair to put on them?

It's been about 3 weeks since I've been by the marina. So if water did get into the drive oil, it's probably become a problem at this point.

Hopefully they don't come back with any findings and this doesn't become a finger pointing issue.

Thanks again for chiming in and happy holidays.

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[suss1173]

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[suss1173]

I spoke to them (the marina) on Saturday. I asked if they changed the oil that was in the drive and if so did it look OK? They said, yes oil was changed and it appeared to be fine. So I said then no signs of water in the drive oil, and they said, no you are good in that respect. However we have your drive on the stand and when we come back to the shop on the 4th we will take apart the U joints and make sure they are OK.

So I have 3 questions...

I am correct to assume there is no reason to take apart the U join b/c either it has excess play in it or it doesn't, and if it did have excess play it would be visibly noticeable. So no reason for them to take the u joint apart, other than finding a reason to run up the labor

Based on the work they did replacing the oil seal and yoke should the responsibility be on them?

Am I being paranoid about potentially getting ripped off?

 

[BillK2632]

- How much water was in the bellows? Based on the pictures it does not look like much. I am doubting there is any u-joint damage, they would have had to sit in water for awhile to damage them, and they would be rusty etc. Seems you would inspect / grease them up (sounds like yours are older and have grease fittings) and be done. By the time you take them apart, I would think you might as well replace them. If the u-joints are damaged from the leaking bellows, I would think that is on the shop that did the leaky bellows job.

- I never put that much grease on the shift mechanism.

- No you are not being paranoid, if they are the ones who left the clamp loose on the bellows and didn't use enough bellows glue, I would be suspect of their work.

 

[suss1173]

- How much water was in the bellows? Based on the pictures it does not look like much. I am doubting there is any u-joint damage, they would have had to sit in water for awhile to damage them, and they would be rusty etc. Seems you would inspect / grease them up (sounds like yours are older and have grease fittings) and be done. By the time you take them apart, I would think you might as well replace them. If the u-joints are damaged from the leaking bellows, I would think that is on the shop that did the leaky bellows job.


- I never put that much grease on the shift mechanism.

- No you are not being paranoid, if they are the ones who left the clamp loose on the bellows and didn't use enough bellows glue, I would be suspect of their work.

Thanks for the reply

 

[BlewByYou88]

I spoke to them (the marina) on Saturday. I asked if they changed the oil that was in the drive and if so did it look OK? They said, yes oil was changed and it appeared to be fine. So I said then no signs of water in the drive oil, and they said, no you are good in that respect. However we have your drive on the stand and when we come back to the shop on the 4th we will take apart the U joints and make sure they are OK.

So I have 3 questions...

I am correct to assume there is no reason to take apart the U join b/c either it has excess play in it or it doesn't, and if it did have excess play it would be visibly noticeable. So no reason for them to take the u joint apart, other than finding a reason to run up the labor

Based on the work they did replacing the oil seal and yoke should the responsibility be on them?

Am I being paranoid about potentially getting ripped off?

The only reason anything should be done with the u-joints is if they feel (Rough/Crunchy) from rusty bearings, which almost never happens, or you feel some sort of clicking or play between the knuckles of the u-joint. Otherwise, grease it up and don't screw with it. They are trying to make some work from themselves.

 

[suss1173]

The only reason anything should be done with the u-joints is if they feel (Rough/Crunchy) from rusty bearings, which almost never happens, or you feel some sort of clicking or play between the knuckles of the u-joint. Otherwise, grease it up and don't screw with it. They are trying to make some work from themselves.

This was my concern, that they were trying to create billable hours and possibly on top of something they should take responsibility for in the first place.

I plan to go by there on the morning of the 4th (when they re-open for business). I will look at the u-joints myself. Assuming they are not crunchy and there's no signs of slop, I will ask them again what there game plan is.... If they say anything about taking the u-joints apart, I'll tell them not to do anything and pay them for the basics service I originally requested and just take the drive from them and re-install it myself (and a new gimbal bearing too).

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[BlewByYou88]

If you are going to install the gimbal bearing yourself it can be kinda of a bear....especially if you don't have the right tools....You might need to make a trip to Harbor freight for a slide hammer/puller. Putting it back in can be a trick too, as you need to be able to pound it back in without hitting the center race. Also, if its a serviceable gimbal bearing, you need to ensure the grease port lines up to the gimbal housing. Good Luck!