Buying my first boat - So many questions...

[cryptyk]

I've always wanted a boat and now I'm at a point in my life where I can buy one. I was at the San Diego boat show (I live in San Diego) the last two days and looked objectively at the Bayliners, Maxums and Sea Rays. I really fell in love with the Sun Dancer 310 and 350 models (in the 2009 line).
Realistically, I plan on getting a 2003 or newer 320 or 340. Of course every person I ran into at the show wanted to sell me a boat and broker the deal, but I'm a little nervous at someone helping me negotiate when they're making a commission.
So I've started looking at boats on yachtworld and boattrader, and the prices are just all over the place. Right now on boatworld, there are three different 2006 340s that are virtually identical (as far as I can tell from the ads). They are priced at 197k, 145k and 120k.
I'm not sure what to do with that information - what a massive range of asking prices!

So I have some questions:
1) How can I find a broker I can trust? Someone who isn't going to get a softie surveyor to help the deal along. Someone who really wants to get me into the right boat at the best price. Someone who will help me buy the boat in the same way that they would help their mother buy a boat. I'd be happy to use this person again for my next boat, and the one after that. I look forward to long working relationships with people I trust.
2) What is a realistic first offer on a 2003-2006 340 SunDancer? I'm not in a hurry to buy today, so I'm fine making some low offers and waiting for someone to soften up and call me back next month to accept (assuming it saves me thousands and thousands of dollars). I've got to think that banks are doing short sales, taking what they can get, etc.
3) What's your favorite part about boating/owning a boat? =)

Thanks all, for any advice you have to share. I've read through a couple of hundred posts from the forum (in the newbie, ask a broker, and general forums), and I already feel like I know some of you =)

-Ryan

 

[Stray Cat]

cryptyk - Welcome to CSR! I presume you've read through this thread maybe more than once.
http://www.clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13289

It is good to see you have the wisdom to slow down the process. If I were buying a preowned boat, regardless of the mfgr. I would want to find a surveyor that I can trust. I wouldn't use an unknown surveyor that is offered by the seller, even at a low ball price....hire your own that works for you.

#1 - Hiring a broker would be like interviewing a realtor to sell your home. I would look for someone that has been doing it for years and has built his reputation on how he takes care of his clients. A pro will want to get and keep you as a client for as long as you intend to boat. I'm certain others will chime in that are much more experienced in this area than me.

#3 - My favorite part of boating...we go on vacation almost every weekend during the spring, summer, and fall. What I like least, winter.

Good luck in your search.

 

[BadaBingII]

Well, you are definately getting in at the right time. I'm not exactly sure how to find a good broker other than word of mouth or talking with them to find out who you like.

Since the broker is paid by the seller, they are technically representing the seller. That said, I have never had a broker selling one of my boats who wouldn't fly a low ball offer past me to see if I'd bite.

Since you know what you are looking for, that should help. Decide what is critical for you, ie generator, big blocks ... what are your must haves. If you have specific questions you can PM me, I have a 2003 340 and will share specifics with you if you like.

The good news is you are in the drivers seat right now for a great price. Oh and by the way, you will want to hire your own surveyor directly, I wouldn't go thru the broker on that.

What do I like best about boating? Oh man, the list is way too long. In short, I was raised around them since I was 4yrs old. There is no where in the world that makes me feel better than my boat. My wife loves it, daughter and her friends love it, my dog even loves it. The friends I've made and the memories are priceless.

Best of luck in your hunting. 320 or 340 are both great boats.

Jeff

 

[mwph]

Ryan,
First of all, welcome to CSR. Second, Keep in mind I am relatively new to boating as well so keep that in mind as my points will be general. I'm sure more seasoned boaters will share more detailed information.

1. The price ranges will, in part, be a product of how the boat is equiped. When I was shoping I was amazed at how it seemed that no 2 boats(same year & model) were the same. Engine sizes, fuel type & drive types are big ticket items. Smaller ticket items (if there is such a thing) add up in a hurry too. Generators, air conditioning & electronics on some boats add up to the cost of my entire boat!

2. Salt water vs. fresh usage makes a difference. How & where the boat was stored affects the value. To make matters worse for a first timer like me was that hours on the engine(s), drive system(s) & generator, are important factors that are hard to put a price on.

As far as selecting a boat.. the best advice given to me during my search was this... Board as many boats as you can. Don't assume they are all configured the same inside. They are not. One more point. Do not let anyone connected with your deal suggest a surveyor. Find your own & get & follow up on references of clients he has served. I failed to do this. Bad move.

I should stop here and let the others take over.
Good luck.

 

[rblatter]

Great advice just given on previous messages. One other point: we decide to buy our 310 Sundancer because it had evrything we needed, and, most important, a great dealer: service plus...any problem was no problem. Good luck.

R.Blatter
310 Sundancer 2001

 

[Alex F]

cryptyk,

Welcome to CSR, you're getting great advice from all members here. I'm sure you now realize that you'll need to do lots of reading to get your homework done. I'll add the following things for starters:
1. When you're done selecting the brand and shift your focus on the models the biggest question you need to answer for yourself is, how do you plan on using the boat?
1.1 day trips, weekends, week long?
1.2 how many people on board most of the time (just your family of 2,3,4 or more than one family?

2. What type of water you will be boating in (salt, brackish or fresh)?

These simple questions will play a huge role in choosing a boat. If you'll have a large crew most of the time, then you'll need the biggest boat you can get (BTW, the suggestion from experience folks is to always buy the biggest you can afford), otherwise you’ll face very unfortunate situation that the boat is too small for your needs, which will be very costly to change.

The type of water will determine what propulsion the boat should have. E.g. if you’ll be in salt water (boat will be stored in a slip, in water) you want to stay away from outdrives (aka I/Os) and get boat with V-drives (only shafts and props as underwater gear).

P.S. check this thread "What makes a Sea Ray better than the others? "
http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13867

The boat is like our mobile summer house that allows our family to spend quality time together and share common interest. We love cruising and be on water during warm months. After just a 2 day weekend we feel like we’re coming back from a getaway or short vacation.

Good luck,
Alex.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Crawl on as many boats as you can. I make it a weekend "thing". Once you've crawled in, on, around 20 or 30 boats, you'll see some of the reasons why the prices vary so much. As FWebster has pointed out to me many times, location is another big factor.

In used boat shopping, some people shop for the best price, others shop for the best boat. When I first started shopping, I shopped for the best price. After I crawled on dozens of 280's, I switched to shopping for the best boat. I then called a few surveyors and briefly spoke to them on the phone, picked one, paid him (even though I didn't have a specific boat in mind yet, but I knew I was going to use him and I knew I was going to get a boat in my area). I told him what I was looking for and asked his advice on things to look for, power packages etc... This helped me narrow my search down. a $20k or $30k difference in price can quickly go away on a poorly maintained boat. Maintaining a boat with no problems is enough work in itself, a poorly maintained boat was more than I was willing to do. After all, I was buying a boat to go boating, not to have another "project" on my todo list.

Once you've crawled on these boats, done some research about prices, a "price" will come to mind as you get on a boat and look at it. You'll kind of know what it's worth and what you're willing to pay for it without even discussing price.


My favorite part about boating is finding an anchorage, putting up my grill, cooking some steaks and watching the sun set. Owning a boat on the other hand is a pain in the butt. I'm a cheap SOB so that means I end up doing most of the grunt work keeping the boat in tip top shape. About mid way through changing the duck bill valves on your vacuflush, you'll know what I mean.

 

[cryptyk]

Thank you all for the tips and tricks. It sounds like my first step is to just go look at some boats. Would you guys recommend just going through the boats on yachtworld, calling up each broker and making an appointment? Should I make sure I have financing lined up before-hand (blank check from my bank)?
When I show up to look at a boat, what can I expect from the sellers broker, who I'm sure will be there. He's going to be FAR more of an expert than me. It seems like I should have someone knowledgeable (an expert) with me to point out the high and low points...

 

[tdappleman]

Welcome to the site!

1: I actually bought mine on eBay from Marine Max - I got a great deal on mine and that was before the bottom fell out on the economy. With most dealers the eBay selling price just sets the price and then you can have the survey done and have the deal contingent on the visual survey as well. I liked this deal as they gave me a good rate on financing and I got a great deal on a trailer.

3: Can't really help on 2 - but my favorite part is certainly to be able to just be on the water. Spending time with family and friends make wonderful memories which last forever. It doesn't really matter if we're cruising, fishing, tubing - we have a great time.

Good luck in finding the right boat!

 

[tmhudson2]

In normal times, price ranges on boats of the same year and model vary based on equipment and fresh v. salt-water, as stated above. But these are not normal times. There will aways be those sellers who have their boat for sale, at their price, but who really don't need to sell, and are just dreaming of moving up. Then there are those sellers who have priced their boat to sell quickly; for whatever reason, they need to sell. In these times, there are also sellers who REALLY NEED TO SELL! You may be able to find a well-maintained boat of the model you want and with most of the equipment you desire that the seller must sell to raise cash. Be patient.

And use a good surveyor, whether or not you use a buyer's broker.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Thank you all for the tips and tricks. It sounds like my first step is to just go look at some boats. Would you guys recommend just going through the boats on yachtworld, calling up each broker and making an appointment? Should I make sure I have financing lined up before-hand (blank check from my bank)?
When I show up to look at a boat, what can I expect from the sellers broker, who I'm sure will be there. He's going to be FAR more of an expert than me. It seems like I should have someone knowledgeable (an expert) with me to point out the high and low points...

I would look up all of FWebsters posts on buying a boat, VERY useful info on "how" to buy the boat that you want. Everyone has their own style when shopping but Frank's works extremely well.

 

[comsnark]

Lots of good advice here. Alex and Turtle especially.

I think it is important to have a surveyor lined up. . . and recognize that you may need a different guy to evaluate the engines. How far you take the surveys is your call based upon how much you are spending.

I am not sure you need a broker. You can find boats yourself. . .and you need to look at the boats yourself. One thing for sure is that if the boat exterior and cabin don't look well maintained. . then the engines probably weren't maintained either.

On the financing end. . yeah, you want that all lined up, but you don't need a blank check when you go see the boat for the first time. Just be sure of what you can afford. In fact, you shouldn't even talk money the first time (except maybe to comment that the asking price seems a bit high). If the salesman seems pushy. . then either tell him to back off or simply leave.

On the money end. . .don't forget to factor in how much the boat will cost to run. For many people, fuel is not the biggest component. Understand if insurance is $500 or $2500 per year. Where are you keeping it? Also. . who is going to maintain it? Do you have an independent mechanic, or are you going to rely on a dealer? Will the dealer work on the boat if you didn't buy it there? Or subject you to long waits for minor repairs?

And yes. . buy the biggest boat you can afford.

 

[wkearney99]

My favorite part about boating is finding an anchorage, putting up my grill, cooking some steaks and watching the sun set.

Amen to that! :thumbsup:

Owning a boat on the other hand is a pain in the butt. I'm a cheap SOB so that means I end up doing most of the grunt work keeping the boat in tip top shape. About mid way through changing the duck bill valves on your vacuflush, you'll know what I mean.

It really helps to be handy when owning a boat. Either you do it yourself or you pay someone else ($$$) AND deal with really screwy scheduling hassles. Like having your weekend (or even a whole season) cut short because of the boat needing work.