Brunswick dumping Sports Yachts and Yachts. Where do we stand?

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Laualarry, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Rocket

    Rocket Active Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Long Island NY
    2007 48 Sundancer
    Previous: 2004 420DA, 2007 320DA, 2006 240DA
    Cummins QSC 540 8.3
    Prestige 50 - 60 feet are all over the northeast. Ive seen in Conn, East end of LI, Rhode Island. There are buyers out there and every one I speak to is happy with them.
    gerryb likes this.
  2. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    Not sure you have been on one of these but there is no comparison in overall quality to the SR's of similar size. Prestige sells for quite a bit less for a reason. Displacement is typically a third less because they use lighter less dense materials that are of lesser quality. Just walk aboard and you can feel the floor give as you walk. I am not saying they are awful boats, they are quite good but just not the same as the SR's. When I told the Prestige salesman I was going with SR all he could say was "those are great boats" and tried to get me to switch based only on price. Lucky for them, SR will not be a competitor any longer.
    FootballFan likes this.
  3. Rocket

    Rocket Active Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Long Island NY
    2007 48 Sundancer
    Previous: 2004 420DA, 2007 320DA, 2006 240DA
    Cummins QSC 540 8.3
    I agree and most of us on this board wouldn't buy this quality of boat as we are enthusiasts. My argument is that prestige found a niche of buyers that took the bait. Their management and marketing teams did their research and built a decent boat with a great layout at a price point. Why couldn't searay Management do this? I see Princess yachts all over as well. I'm just soured that Searay abandoned a loyal group.... I was set on a new 520 as my next boat. Not sure if you all saw this new sundancer or flybridge.... they hit it on this one.
    AL G. and TonyQSC500 like this.
  4. tc410

    tc410 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 9, 2006
    Charlevoix, MI/Jupiter, FL
    2005 550DB
    MAN CRM-900
    Brunswick/Sea Ray already tried.... remember Meridian?

    Back a few years ago when the L Series was announced, I had envisioned Brunswick/Sea Ray separating the L off to be marketed as a distinct brand much the way Carver did with Marquis. I’m sort of surprised they weren’t able to sell it off as a separate brand/entity as a turn key operation. Getting some number of millions of dollars for the assets/molds/real estate/business seems better to me than shuttering it and essentially hoping to find a buyer for the two skeleton plants. Then again, I wasn’t in the board room.

    I’ll say that while the Prestige, Galeon, etc. are probably substandard to a Sea Ray, they will undoubtedly fill the market now that Sea Ray has waved the white flag and handed it to them. There are other better options IMO such as Riviera, Sunseeker, Princess, and even Marquis that will attract this segment as well. For instance, a friend just took delivery of an ‘18 60’ Riviera and that is a beautiful boat despite Volvo pod drives.

    The remaining market must be jumping up and down at the opportunity to step in and court the high net-worth customers that Sea Ray chose to leave curbside.
  5. Rocket

    Rocket Active Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Long Island NY
    2007 48 Sundancer
    Previous: 2004 420DA, 2007 320DA, 2006 240DA
    Cummins QSC 540 8.3
    Put Tiara in that Mix as well. Agreed on the Riviera, they produce a really nice yacht.
  6. tc410

    tc410 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 9, 2006
    Charlevoix, MI/Jupiter, FL
    2005 550DB
    MAN CRM-900
    I agree on Tiara but purposely excluded them since they don’t build anything larger than 53’. My post was from the position of us that are already over that LOA and thinking of our next step up.

    I should’ve listed Hatteras as well, their 60’ yacht is a true high-quality contender for the 60’+ buyer.
  7. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 12, 2006
    Somers Point, NJ
    "On Vacation"
    2006 40 Sundancer
    Raymarine E125 & HD Radar + Garmin 5208
    QSB5.9 380 Cummins
    Will take me awhile to sort this out personally. I have owned BC for many years and understand the business dynamics and customer changes taking place. However, I have noticed that while I used to always wear my SeaRay shirts/caps/coozies with great pride...but now.. well, a bit less so...
  8. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 12, 2006
    Somers Point, NJ
    "On Vacation"
    2006 40 Sundancer
    Raymarine E125 & HD Radar + Garmin 5208
    QSB5.9 380 Cummins
    International 'mid-sized cruiser' builders
    Riviera -- Australia
    Prestige -- French
    Azimut -- Italy
    Sunseeker -- UK
    Princess -- UK
    Galeon - Poland

    US 'mid-sized cruiser' builders (ex. SeaRay and Meridian)
    Regal -- Florida (35 models offered, only 4 above 40')
    Tiara -- Michigan (9 models, 6 > 40')
    Cruisers -- Wisconsin (21 models, 7 > 40')
    Carver -- Wisconsin (7 models, 1 > 40')

    So where does/did SeaRay fit in this market?? The company (specifically their capital investment in the yacht division) was simply struggling with the wrong product manufactured in the wrong country.
  9. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Active Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    The reality is the 25-40 foot length is probably a sweet spot for must of us mortals. Gas engines cheaper than diesel. Can be handled single handed. Not completely killer to wash, wax and keep clean. Slips, storage and such remain "reasonable."
    Todd320 likes this.
  10. juggernaut1

    juggernaut1 Active Member

    Apr 19, 2015
    Perth, Western Australia
    2006 38 Sundancer
    8.1S / ZF 63V Drives
    I'm biased with the Riv's and love their new 68 and 72 Sports Motor Yachts - not that I have the coin to buy one or operate one. When I casually enquired there was already a 2 year waiting list. I'd happily settle on a Riv shaft drive 47 Sports Yacht, 47 Fly or 51 Fly though.

    Are there many Maritimo's in the US?
  11. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3
    Yes some, I was going to add this to the list!
    juggernaut1 likes this.
  12. dcwjd

    dcwjd Member

    Oct 17, 2006
    Lindenhurst, NY
    2007 48 Sundancer
    Cummins QSC 540
    It’s a nice layout but the power package I believe is only Zeus pods. It would be better if you can order with straight shaft drives.
  13. Caseracer

    Caseracer New Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    Palm Coast , FL
    The 520 Sea Rays that were built were all Zeus pods with Cummins. There was a straight shaft with MANs version being developed but it never made it to production.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    Rocket likes this.
  14. 420

    420 Member

    Aug 11, 2015
    Lake Erie
    2003 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA's
    Between foreign tariffs and Sea Ray shutting down larger boat mfg - I’m glad I don’t have a boat under warranty and the used market for popular models just got a 25% increase in value. That’s my take! The guy wanting a new boat just got a 25% price hike and the 420 & 48DA’s (built between 2003 and 2007) just got more expensive.
    Rocket and Jaybeaux like this.
  15. Chada

    Chada Member

    Jul 10, 2018
    Richmond, VA
    1998 Sea Ray 370 Sundancer
    454 Mercruiser 380 HP
    My Dad is a golf manufacturer and golf is declining rapidly and I find a lot of similarities to boating declines. It seems that people are not interested to a great degree in outdoor activities in the ways that they used to be, especially activities that take more than a couple of hours. I do believe that social media does have a lot to do with it. I think that lower stagnant wages, worse jobs and student loans also play a big role in keeping people from expensive recreational activities. My daughter is a teen and her friends dont even want to drive or have a car.
    JVM225 likes this.
  16. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    I agree that people just don’t want to spend that much of their time playing golf anymore.
    I dabbled in it for a lot of years. Playing a couple of times a season. About 15 years ago I decided to take lessons, up my game, and spend more time doing it.
    That lasted about a year. Not an easy thing to do around here, and I say this as someone who lives a chip shot away from Bethpage Black. You literally either turn in to that parking lot, or turn the other way in to my street. Very long days often made longer by waiting for tee times and slow foursomes in front of you.
    It was even harder to explain to my wife why I was spending one full day of my short weekend away from her and the kids who were little at the time.
    Boating is much more of a family pastime.
    I’m not so sure that finances plays as big a role as I would think they should in the decline of some of these activities for younger adults.
    Between my wife and I we have a bunch of nieces and nephews in the mid 20’s - mid 30’s age bracket. Some have kids, some are still single. Most had a fair amount of student loan debt. Very few of them let it impact on their leisure time or activities. They like vacations, going out to expensive dinners and drinks, nail salons, Starbucks, etc..
    They place a lot more importance on living the good life than they do about debt, investing, home ownership, or owning a lot of the things my generation cared about.
    Sometimes I think they don’t care because they are just waiting for my generation to croak so they can get all our stuff instead of worrying about getting their own.
    I think it’s a recipe for disaster.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    Jaybeaux and Chada like this.
  17. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    There was a time ago (10 years ago) I played golf 3,4,5 rounds a week.

    Pretty much consumed. Had played for 25 years. Over the top consumed. Boating broke that addiction. Have not played in years.

    Jaybeaux likes this.
  18. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    What is this "Golf" thing y'all speak of anyway?
    bahamabreisus and Steve S like this.
  19. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers

    Robin Williams (may he rest in peace) will explain golf to you:

  20. Gimme Time

    Gimme Time Active Member

    Jan 7, 2007
    Charlottesville, VA./ Deltaville, VA
    2006 52SB, Ray Marine E120, Garmin 7612 through BOE site sponsor,
    From what Ive seen of SOLD PRICES over the last 3 months used Sea Ray boats are selling for more than they were over the previous two years imho. Now that Brunswick Corporation made the decision in my opinion to shut down the SR 40’+ line of boats that have stood the test of time an we’re & are well proven sellers for the Euro style crap it’s a dam shame.i think they have built the best in there past but not in short term last several years.

    I had hoped someone with foresight would have determined what worked & what didn’t and corrected the poor path they were on. Yes it’s tough out there with the competition but SR past record and this forum prove the demand is, was & will still be there for quite sometime. They could probably have picked almost any ten people off this forum to help advise them with what the customers whom have been loyal fans and users of their products want the boats to be compared to where they went.

    My sincere apologies to all the many loyal men & women whom helped make SR who they were and regret hearing of so many terminations and plant shut downs. During recessions and tough economic times these things weigh on everyone’s minds.

    While we know very few of you, everyone that we do know was a strong advocate and personal sales representative in everything they did for SR.

    Many thanks and may you find your needs met somewhere somehow as quickly as possible.

    John Martin
    2001 420AC
    2006 52DB

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