Broker's opinion, please...

[matthewmiller01]

I would like your opinion on the following, if you wouldn't mind.

I have an '07 210 Select. ~90 hours on it. Excellent shape. No wear and tear. NADA: ~18,XXX-22,XXX. All service and winterizations have been performed by my dealer here (whom I also bought it from) and I have a great relationship with my dealer.

I am looking at an '08 260DA (New, leftover), but it is at another dealership. MSRP: $115,XXX. My dealer does not have a 260DA (the model I am set on) in inventory. Since I want a gennie, they can't get push me in to a new one either as gennies aren't offered on the 260DAs anymore.

With current market conditions being down, how would a dealer look at this situation? I see it as an easy sale. The boat would merely have to be costed out to my dealer (which has already been agreed to be done upon the deal being set) and delivered to me. I totally understand that everyone has to feed their families, but my dealer, I feel, is being too hardnosed on an easy sale with a quick profit. The will not budge on their numbers at all. And to top it off, the price they say the boat would be is ~$5,XXX above what it is sitting on the floor for at the other dealership. I mean it is not like they have to do any real work on it other than getting it here. Furthermore, if I don't buy that boat through them, they are well aware that I will keep my current boat-so they lose out on ANY profit. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance for any advice/insight.

 

[thomas]

Being a dealer/broker there are a number on things to work through.
1-Are U trading your old boat in? if u are, your dealer will not give u full retail price.
2- Are u paying for the boat up front? if not the dealer may not have anymore room
on his floor plan to take a trade, or pay the other dealer up front.
3- floor plan companies are getting tough on extending credit to dealers.
4- It's all about the money

 

[katricol]

Matt...how far away is the 26' da ?? Are you wanting to trade your boat toward the 26 ? Are you letting your "hand" be too known to your dealer, meaning you are too eager and they know it.

 

[fwebster]

I am assuming that your dealer is going to get the boat you want from the dealer who has it? In that case, you are also overlooking your dealer's cost of acquisition and blaming the wrong guy.

Sea Ray dealers own the boats, period. The dealer who has the boat knows he losing the profit on the sale to you if he sells it to your dealer so you can buy from him. My guess is that is who's playing hard-a$$ in this deal. He's charging your dealer based on his cost plus some profit trying to force you to buy the boat from him.

 

[douglee25]

Just my opion, I think you need to look harder towarda a bigger boat.

If you purchase a 260DA, you're going to outgrow that boat just as fast as your 210 select. Then when do outgrow it, you're going to want to upgrade again, but this time, you're going to be even further apart on your next trade.

My advice is suck it up now and go bigger. It will hurt less in the long run.

Doug

 

[Tonka Boater]

Did I read between the lines correctly -- dealer B wants to sell it to you for ~$120K?? If so, that is waaayy to much for a hold-over '08. That boat should be well under $100K.
.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Being a dealer/broker there are a number on things to work through.
1-Are U trading your old boat in? if u are, your dealer will not give u full retail price.
2- Are u paying for the boat up front? if not the dealer may not have anymore room
on his floor plan to take a trade, or pay the other dealer up front.
3- floor plan companies are getting tough on extending credit to dealers.
4- It's all about the money

I'll try to answer all, as I appreciate the advice you all give.

1. Yes. I really aould rather trade and not have to sell before I can buy. If it comes down to it in the end, I may go that route anyway.
2. Financing
3. I understand that, but I think I will be OK as I have at least a mid 700 credit score.
4. I agree. I am just unsure why a guaranteed sale (at a profit) wouldn't be a no-brainer.

Matt...how far away is the 26' da ?? Are you wanting to trade your boat toward the 26 ? Are you letting your "hand" be too known to your dealer, meaning you are too eager and they know it.

The other dealer is about 6 hours away. I would go there to get it if it were a substantial difference in price (which it is turning out to be). Yes, I would be trading my 210SEL. Realize that it is a long way to drive on trust that they will give me a FAIR (I'm not asking for way over book value, but nothing can be sure until we each lay eyes on each others' boats.) price for mine. You may say they know my hand in a sense. I have known and talked to them about getting a pre-2009 260DA. I want a gennie and, at this point, I won't go bigger, so I have to get a 2008 or less 260. They also know I will not pull the trigger unless it is the right deal. They had a 260 that I would have bought, but it got sold to another dealer before the Admiral and I were financially ready to do it. Other than that, they did/do not know my hand as far as what I am willing to spend. They also know that I do not need a DA. We want to move up, and will eventually, but we could just as easily (or easier) wait a year or two.

I am assuming that your dealer is going to get the boat you want from the dealer who has it? In that case, you are also overlooking your dealer's cost of acquisition and blaming the wrong guy.

Sea Ray dealers own the boats, period. The dealer who has the boat knows he losing the profit on the sale to you if he sells it to your dealer so you can buy from him. My guess is that is who's playing hard-a$$ in this deal. He's charging your dealer based on his cost plus some profit trying to force you to buy the boat from him.

Yes, The other dealer (when I talked to them) said they would cost it out to my local dealer. I understand about that dealer's cost. He may be the one to blame; I don't think so, but don't know either. I'll elaborate more in a minute on that. As I said, he may be the problem. BTW, my dealer said that I would not be charged any shipping costs provided the boat was not cross country (I am holding them to that).


Further information:
I went to the dealer today. I already had the deal sheet from my dealer sent to me to go over the numbers. It all went south about 2 minutes into it. When we started talking about the price of the boat, he said that the other dealer never told him that there was a trailer with it. I told him that the price I was told by the other dealer INCLUDED the trailer. I started to shut down after he told me for a second time that we would have to add on the cost of the trailer. Needless to say, no boat today. I thought the starting point of our negotiations was just that. Obviously, he thought it was the final price... without the trailer. We'll see if they call with any new ideas and I will call the dealer with the boat and talk to him again.

 

[douglee25]

Why are you buying new? There are many used boats on the market that you could be so ahead financially on the deal. Within one year the depreciation on your new boat is going to be devastating. Buy something used that has already taken the depreciation hit and make out in the end.

Doug

 

[matthewmiller01]

Just my opion, I think you need to look harder towarda a bigger boat.

If you purchase a 260DA, you're going to outgrow that boat just as fast as your 210 select. Then when do outgrow it, you're going to want to upgrade again, but this time, you're going to be even further apart on your next trade.

My advice is suck it up now and go bigger. It will hurt less in the long run.

Doug

I do fully understand 2-footitis and the refusal to accept said disease. We are not moving up to get a bigger boat. We want to merely be able to stay out for the weekend vice coming home every night. We want to be able to occasionally be able to trailer and I do not want to have the hassle of oversize permits and costs when I do. So I am fairly sure (never say never) that we will stay with the 260. I understand your point, though.

Did I read between the lines correctly -- dealer B wants to sell it to you for ~$120K?? If so, that is waaayy to much for a hold-over '08. That boat should be well under $100K.
.

No. No. No. The boat with trailer (at the other dealer) is just a hair over 90K. I was not going to pay that. I was using that as the starting point. I know it is new and there is huge depreciation when you sign the dotted line. My reason for the post was not intended to debate the new vs. used thing. I know that if I went used, I would be better off as far as value vs. cost. The problem is that I would rather trade instead of sell outright with the current market (the hassle). I know well that I would get more by selling outright, but I don't know when that would happen.

As I stated above, I am just having trouble seeing why the dealer wouldn't think of this as an easy sale with some profit in a down economy/market.

As stated above, the only real idea I can see at this point is that the other dealer is being the trouble or my dealer really doesn't want the hassle.

Any others? Please keep the advice coming. I truly appreciate all of the help.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Why are you buying new? There are many used boats on the market that you could be so ahead financially on the deal. Within one year the depreciation on your new boat is going to be devastating. Buy something used that has already taken the depreciation hit and make out in the end.

Doug

I'm not against buying used. But I would rather take the hit of buying through a dealer vice the hassle of selling outright in the current market. Also, I have not found a used 260DA near what I am looking for at a dealer as of yet.

I do not HAVE to buy right now. I just got the permission. I can always wait if the deal is not right.

 

[douglee25]

Go to boat er ed dot com and go to the classifieds. There's a 2006 260DA there that doesn't have the genset (it can be added for about $6-7k) for $49,900.

Look at the pics. It's mint. The seller has his number listed too.

Doug

 

[Kendall]

Matt:

Please fight the urge to buy new....I was in your situation last year and bought a nice used 260 with 6.2, trailer, and generator.

Please take a look at this one:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2006-SEA-RAY-260-Sundancer-95956782

I assume this one is at my Lake's Sea Ray dealer. I would be glad to check it out for you if you like and I'm sure Dave from this site might even know more about the boat. You can get a nice trailer for probably $4500 more or rent one if you just want to get the boat to your slip.

Best of luck.

Kendall

 

[Woody]

I would like your opinion on the following, if you wouldn't mind.

I have an '07 210 Select. ~90 hours on it. Excellent shape. No wear and tear. NADA: ~18,XXX-22,XXX. All service and winterizations have been performed by my dealer here (whom I also bought it from) and I have a great relationship with my dealer.

I am looking at an '08 260DA (New, leftover), but it is at another dealership. MSRP: $115,XXX. My dealer does not have a 260DA (the model I am set on) in inventory. Since I want a gennie, they can't get push me in to a new one either as gennies aren't offered on the 260DAs anymore.

With current market conditions being down, how would a dealer look at this situation? I see it as an easy sale. The boat would merely have to be costed out to my dealer (which has already been agreed to be done upon the deal being set) and delivered to me. I totally understand that everyone has to feed their families, but my dealer, I feel, is being too hardnosed on an easy sale with a quick profit. The will not budge on their numbers at all. And to top it off, the price they say the boat would be is ~$5,XXX above what it is sitting on the floor for at the other dealership. I mean it is not like they have to do any real work on it other than getting it here. Furthermore, if I don't buy that boat through them, they are well aware that I will keep my current boat-so they lose out on ANY profit. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance for any advice/insight.

I undersrtand you're 5k apart but I'm curious what is the # you guys arrived at for this 2, soon to be 3yo boat.

 

[comsnark]

MSRP $115K. . and you are looking for a $90K deal? That represents a 30% discount.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the old days of a booming economy, wasn't that the standard discount for a new boat? And this particular boat is a full two years old?

I think Woody has a point: When are the 2011's coming out?

 

[matthewmiller01]

I undersrtand you're 5k apart but I'm curious what is the # you guys arrived at for this 2, soon to be 3yo boat.

That's just it. We didn't even get to that point. We never really started negotiating. My dealer here kept saying something like 92k or something as the final price without the trailer. I was assuming that was going to be the starting point with the trailer. I tuned him out after I realized he wasn't going to budge from that figure.

MSRP $115K. . and you are looking for a $90K deal? That represents a 30% discount.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the old days of a booming economy, wasn't that the standard discount for a new boat? And this particular boat is a full two years old?

I thought that too. Are you saying that I am being too aggressive or not aggressive enough? I felt that starting there would be a good thing for both of us in the current market. I guess he didn't. :huh:



Please keep the advice coming, if anyone has any more.


Also, I have looked at used and there are a few boats out there that I am sure I would be happy with. Unfortunately, there are none close by (see new thread on how to go about buying a boat from afar).

 

[matthewmiller01]

Looking for a surveyer near Wrightsville Beach, NC for used 260DA.

 

[TMK988]

Mat,
If I am reading this all correctly, you could buy that beautiful 260 from MarineMax for probably closer to $50k, spend probably less than $2k to have it shipped to you, $5k for a trailer if you would like and now you have around $57k in. You could keep your current boat and still be $10-20k ahead!!! I almost purchase my boat from MarineMax. They really seem to work over the boats they sell and 90 hours seems awfully low. In this seniero you could sell your current boat for well below value and really be ahead and more than likely sell it very quickly. While I was shopping this fall, the well priced boats were all selling quickly. Also remember, that '08 boat is already two plus years old. Buying new just doesn't seem to make sense to me unless you are quite wealthy and don't really care about the depreciation beat down you get going new.

 

[Presentation]

... that doesn't have the genset (it can be added for about $6-7k) Doug

Find me a reputable establishment that will add a generator including the cost of the generator, labor and all needed components for under $7,000 and I’ll sent you $1,000 in cash.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Mat,
If I am reading this all correctly, you could buy that beautiful 260 from MarineMax for probably closer to $50k, spend probably less than $2k to have it shipped to you, $5k for a trailer if you would like and now you have around $57k in. You could keep your current boat and still be $10-20k ahead!!! I almost purchase my boat from MarineMax. They really seem to work over the boats they sell and 90 hours seems awfully low. In this seniero you could sell your current boat for well below value and really be ahead and more than likely sell it very quickly. While I was shopping this fall, the well priced boats were all selling quickly. Also remember, that '08 boat is already two plus years old. Buying new just doesn't seem to make sense to me unless you are quite wealthy and don't really care about the depreciation beat down you get going new.

This sounds good, but I am concerned about buying from afar (see other thread on that). Also, I am a little worried about it being a saltwater boat. But, if we can get the numbers close enough, I am ready to send the surveyer over there. We'll see how it goes.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Turns out it is not going to happen. The numbers just don't work. It looks like we will keep ours for another year or so and maybe try again. Oh well... Is it spring yet?