Bow in, stern in, or offshore?

[Scotto97]

This weekend was rough. Ran into an unpredicted wind storm Friday night on Lake Mead with my 260 DA. Winds were 50 + MPH and waves of 2 - 4 feet. We has the stern towards the shore with my bow anchor out with a good 6 to 1 rode in approx 40 feet of water. we usually end up in about 4 1/2 feet of water at the stern making the boat around 25 feet offshore.

The main anchor didn't hold and started slipping, bringing us too close to shore - couldn't start up and get to deeper waters. Ended up partially beached with minor rock damage.

Need experienced boaters advice on whether to bow in next time, keep the stern to the beach as we have and somehow anchor better, or forget getting that close to shore and anchor out in deeper water taking some kind of inflatable dingy to shore.

We like to come ashore for much of the day to visit and hang out with friends we've met over time at the beach, but after this weekend we're looking for safer ideas.

Thanks

 

[bushway9172]

Not sure how the waves crash at this beach. If there is very little wave action, back toward the beach (stern in), with the bow facing out. The bow of any boat is meant to take the waves... NOT the stern :thumbsup:

If the waves crash strongly onshore, anchor the same way I described above, just farther out (beyond where the waves crash).

Also, make sure you deploy your bow anchor WHILE you're backing in. Once stopped, throw a stern anchor. Good luck!

 

[Scotto97]

The wind was blowing in from the south but the beach alignment places me facing East / Southeast so my bow wasn't into the wind. This, along with the 2-4 foot waves crashing at shoreline caused me to drift into rocks and shallow water to my port side. (Wind was blowing from Starboard to Port)

 

[Sundancer]

A 6 to 1 scope is not enough. Typically, you need 7 to 1 for normal anchoring. If a storm is forecast, go to 10 to 1. This assumes an adequately sized anchor, good bottom conditions and enough chain to help keep everything in place.

I take my anchor out and set it. I tie the other end to something on shore. I use a float or buoy to mark it when we return. I loop it over the midship cleat and then tie it off on the back cleat. During the day while we're getting on an off I adjust it so we can step into knee deep water. At night, after we've boarded the last time I retie the back cleat moving us out to deeper water.

We got hit a few years ago by a storm that rolled from the North, which is very rare. We had 4 to 6 footers to appeared while we were down cooking dinner. It wasn't forecast and was a freak storm. I was able to pull on the rope and move the boat out. It took just about everything I could muster, but I was able to move it out where we could start the motor and move to a better spot. We got the anchor about an hour later when all had passed.

 

[Skeetobite]

40' of water and a 10 to 1 scope would mean you need to carry 400'+ of anchor chain/rode. Not likely on a 260DA. The report of a 6 to 1 scope means you had 240' of rode out. Seems like a lot of rode to carry on that size boat, but is possible I guess.

Best bet is to find (plan ahead) a spot where you can get as much scope as possible without fear of drifting and ending up on the beach. If you can't get the proper scope, leave your engine(s) running so you can get moving or control the boat if necessary.

We run into storms like this every afternoon on the West coast of Florida during the summer. We know in advance where we will run to if a storm is approaching and have checked many of the locations in advance for depth, holding, etc. It only takes a few minutes in each new area to sort out safe harbor before enjoying the day.

Our boat is 21k lbs fully loaded. We were forced to anchor in 6' of water with a 5 to 1 scope during a 3 day blow of 45kts +/-. We set the anchor at a 10 to 1 scope and choked it up to accomodate our swing in a tight anchorage. using a 35lb fast set delta and we swung there for 3 days. never moved an inch.

 

[Sea Gull]

This weekend was rough. Ran into an unpredicted wind storm Friday night on Lake Mead with my 260 DA. Winds were 50 + MPH and waves of 2 - 4 feet. We has the stern towards the shore with my bow anchor out with a good 6 to 1 rode in approx 40 feet of water. we usually end up in about 4 1/2 feet of water at the stern making the boat around 25 feet offshore.

The main anchor didn't hold and started slipping, bringing us too close to shore - couldn't start up and get to deeper waters. Ended up partially beached with minor rock damage.

Need experienced boaters advice on whether to bow in next time, keep the stern to the beach as we have and somehow anchor better, or forget getting that close to shore and anchor out in deeper water taking some kind of inflatable dingy to shore.

We like to come ashore for much of the day to visit and hang out with friends we've met over time at the beach, but after this weekend we're looking for safer ideas.

Thanks

#1: You don't mention type of anchor or the amount of chain you have, this would help in advising you.
#2: I would think twice about anchoring in 40' of water even on a calm day, let alone the high winds you describe.
#3: Never, never anchor on a lee shore in any kind of storm conditions.
#4: anchoring off a beach as you describe is for calm wind and water only. When the wind is blowing you should be well upwind of any obstruction, see #3.
#5 By using 2 anchors as you describe you had the boat at an unnatural angle to the wind and waves. This puts extra stress and strain on your ground tackle. In the conditions you have described you had marginal scope even with the boat tracking into the seas on a single anchor.

 

[wileecoyote]

40' of water and a 10 to 1 scope would mean you need to carry 400'+ of anchor chain/rode. Not likely on a 260DA. The report of a 6 to 1 scope means you had 240' of rode out. Seems like a lot of rode to carry on that size boat, but is possible I guess.

Best bet is to find (plan ahead) a spot where you can get as much scope as possible without fear of drifting and ending up on the beach. If you can't get the proper scope, leave your engine(s) running so you can get moving or control the boat if necessary.

We run into storms like this every afternoon on the West coast of Florida during the summer. We know in advance where we will run to if a storm is approaching and have checked many of the locations in advance for depth, holding, etc. It only takes a few minutes in each new area to sort out safe harbor before enjoying the day.

Our boat is 21 tons. We were forced to anchor in 6' of water with a 5 to 1 scope during a 3 day blow of 45kts +/-. We set the anchor at a 10 to 1 scope and choked it up to accomodate our swing in a tight anchorage. using a 35lb fast set delta and we swung there for 3 days. never moved an inch.

Your boat weighs 42,000 lbs? Dry weight on a 92 370DB is 14.5K. I'm guessing you meant to say close to 21K lbs, not 21tons.

 

[Summerwind]

Also I would never use a rear anchor in a storm. The wind and wave direction can change putting your boat in a bad situation.

 

[Nehalennia]

Yeah, I would have moved to a better sheltered area if possible.

Also I would never use a rear anchor in a storm. The wind and wave direction can change putting your boat in a bad situation.

If there was not a better spot to be had, I would not have a second anchor at the stern. As SeaGull asked how much chain and what type of anchor did you have?

 

[Scotto97]

Thanks for the great advice - as far as the anchor, we have a 25 lb plow type with 15 feet of chain, the bottom is sandy.

From reading the responses, I take away the boat should have been able to turn into the wind as it became rough.

If you can believe it, the boat didn't come with a windlass, and I wasn't strong enough myself to pull the boat out with the anchor rope once the wind really kicked up.

I'm thinking a windlass would have made a huge difference and will probably have one installed this winter. although I've heard most dealers want about $3000 to retrofit them onboard.

 

[VTSeaRay]

Wasn't it a stern anchor line during stormy weather that led to those football players demise?

 

[Sea Gull]

A windlass is not designed to do that. It will retrieve the slack rode, but should not pull the boat - even in calm conditions - toward the anchor.

Your anchor seems correctly sized, but you might want to add some chain, especially after you add a windlass.

The conditions you describe are interesting with such deep water so close to the beach. You may want to consider other anchoring techniques, such as using a kellet weight in short scope conditions. But unless the wind and waves are normal for your area, I would simply opt for a more hospitable beach on days like that.

 

[Fishnut]

Wasn't it a stern anchor line during stormy weather that led to those football players demise?

No, it was being out in 10-20 waves during a storm in a 21 foot center console with no Ebirp, no anchor sock,drinking too much and inexperienced boaters;

I've had situations where 2-4 was really 3-6 and I have had light breezes turn out to be 20 knots. But I have never seen an unexpected 50mph blow. I would fire your weatherman. :thumbsup:

 

[keokie]

The original post states he was anchoring at Lake Mead. I have been doing this for 20 years at Lake Powell, which is a very similar lake in terms of weather and anchoring.

A couple points:

Un-predicted severe thunderstorms are common. Actually, they ARE predicted. It's just about every single day of the boating season, so by following the weather, you would stay off the lake all summer.

These storms develop quickly and can be ferocious.

The stern anchor he was referring to was holding him to the beach. This works well as waves do not come from the shoreline.

If you beach the boat bow in, the storms can push you all the way up the beach.

It is difficult to anchor out in the open as this is a canyon lake and commonly has depths of more than a hundred feet just a little ways offshore.

Marinas are often out, as it is easy to be 50 miles from the nearest one.

So, many choose to anchor bow out to face the waves with the stern secured to shore.

What works:

The largest bow anchor you can handle.

At least 30 feet of chain.

At least 200 feet of high quality line.

Good stern tackle. Attach at 45 degree angles to shore and be very, very secured.

To do this correctly, You MUST have the bow anchor set firmly before you back all the way to the shore.

Then attach to the shore at a comfortable distance to keep the drives out of the mud, but still have good acces to the boat.

When going to bed, or in anticipation of a storm, pull yourself a bit further off the shore.

A windlass will definitely help for many reasons. First, you can haul the anchor as you motor away from the beach. Second, the same person that is deploying the anchor can also back the boat towards shore. Third, it can pull much harder than you. Yes, I know the manufacturers say don't do it, but I'll gladly risk the windlass to pull away from danger (and have). If the poster was pinned to the beach, and was not strong enough to pull the boat, it indicates the anchor held, but either the line stretched or it dragged a bit. A windlass likely could have pulled him back into safer depths.

I have tried just about every way of riding a storm out at Powell. By far, the greatest success has been to 3 way tie with the stern to the beach. In the bad storms, the lines are like guitar strings, but they hold.

 

[Scotto97]

The original post states he was anchoring at Lake Mead. I have been doing this for 20 years at Lake Powell, which is a very similar lake in terms of weather and anchoring.

A couple points:

Un-predicted severe thunderstorms are common. Actually, they ARE predicted. It's just about every single day of the boating season, so by following the weather, you would stay off the lake all summer.

These storms develop quickly and can be ferocious.

The stern anchor he was referring to was holding him to the beach. This works well as waves do not come from the shoreline.

If you beach the boat bow in, the storms can push you all the way up the beach.

It is difficult to anchor out in the open as this is a canyon lake and commonly has depths of more than a hundred feet just a little ways offshore.

Marinas are often out, as it is easy to be 50 miles from the nearest one.

So, many choose to anchor bow out to face the waves with the stern secured to shore.

What works:

The largest bow anchor you can handle.

At least 30 feet of chain.

At least 200 feet of high quality line.

Good stern tackle. Attach at 45 degree angles to shore and be very, very secured.

To do this correctly, You MUST have the bow anchor set firmly before you back all the way to the shore.

Then attach to the shore at a comfortable distance to keep the drives out of the mud, but still have good acces to the boat.

When going to bed, or in anticipation of a storm, pull yourself a bit further off the shore.

A windlass will definitely help for many reasons. First, you can haul the anchor as you motor away from the beach. Second, the same person that is deploying the anchor can also back the boat towards shore. Third, it can pull much harder than you. Yes, I know the manufacturers say don't do it, but I'll gladly risk the windlass to pull away from danger (and have). If the poster was pinned to the beach, and was not strong enough to pull the boat, it indicates the anchor held, but either the line stretched or it dragged a bit. A windlass likely could have pulled him back into safer depths.

I have tried just about every way of riding a storm out at Powell. By far, the greatest success has been to 3 way tie with the stern to the beach. In the bad storms, the lines are like guitar strings, but they hold.

Thanks for the great tips - sounds like maybe the bow line stretched under pressure, placing me too close to shore.

I agree with the windlass statement, when I have one installed I'll buy the strongest one I can find. It probably would have allowed me to get into deeper water with more options available.

As far as the weather goes, it wasn't a thunderstorm, just a windstorm. A neighbor on the beach said something wise that I won't forget: The temperature was forecasted to drop 10 degrees from Friday to Saturday. In the desert, that kind of drop usually results in wind. Next time I'll remember this and not go out under such a prediction, regardless of whether wind is mentioned in the forecast.

With the windlass I'll also buy a bigger bow anchor, maybe 35-40 lbs, whatevers the largest that will fit the boat

Would you stay with the plow type given I mostly anchor at a sandy location?

 

[Nehalennia]

Double your chain as other's have mentioned and you should do much better.

 

[Mr Salt]

Any boat at anchor will turn into the wind and waves. The mechanics of this are simple the wind and waves are pushing the boat away and the anchor is pulling it back. We who on the oceans have another factor and that is tides, as the tide comes and goes the boat will change the direction it is facing.

 

[tobnpr]

Thanks for the great advice - as far as the anchor, we have a 25 lb plow type with 15 feet of chain, the bottom is sandy.

From reading the responses, I take away the boat should have been able to turn into the wind as it became rough.

If you can believe it, the boat didn't come with a windlass, and I wasn't strong enough myself to pull the boat out with the anchor rope once the wind really kicked up.

I'm thinking a windlass would have made a huge difference and will probably have one installed this winter. although I've heard most dealers want about $3000 to retrofit them onboard.

You said "we" in your original post, so I guess it's safe to assume you weren't alone...
The obvious question to me here is- why are you trying to "pull" the boat to the anchor, rather than powering up to it??? A windlass would have made no difference- they don't "pull" the boat to the anchor. Power to the anchor, pulling in the slack line as you go. Get over top of the anchor, cleat off the rode, break out the anchor, then retrieve.

As to anchoring stern-to off a beach, as was said above that's fine for fair weather. But as Skeeto mentioned, we get 40-50 mph straight line winds in thunderstorms routinely. You have to keep an eye to the sky (or Sirius Wx) and move the boat to open water when bad weather threatens. I never want to be in a location too close to shore in a storm that would leave no time to react if the anchor pulled.

 

[Skeetobite]

Your boat weighs 42,000 lbs? Dry weight on a 92 370DB is 14.5K. I'm guessing you meant to say close to 21K lbs, not 21tons.

LMAO really loud. Yeah, my loaded weight = 21k (+stores and dink on foredeck) Should have reached for that second cup of coffee before typing that ;-)
21 tons crammed into this boat would send it to the bottom, LOL! Then of course there is my mother-in-law...

 

[mwph]

Thanks to all who are posting to this thread. Great information for those of us that are less experienced.

Being a little short on experience myself, I had never heard of a "Kellet weight" as mentioned by Sea Gull. So off into cyberspace I went and (if anyone else is interested), I return with this....

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/kellets.php

Thanks again to those who have posted.