Bilge pump helm indicator

[DaleM]

I'm trying to chase down something that doesn't make much sense yet. I have a minimum amount of water in my bilge back around the rear bilge pump - maybe a cup or two but nothing that's enough to kick on the float switch. What happens is when I'm underway the green bilge pump indicator lights up for X period of time and then shuts off. When I get back to the dock I check the bilge and nothing looks any more/less wet then it did when I checked the last time. I'm pretty sure the rear bilge if running will light up the helm indicator.

I had to replace my sump box pump. In doing so I found out that the sump appears to connect to the galley and head sink drains to pump overboard. I checked this when I was trying to adjust the float switch level to keep the pump from cavitating by constantly running water into the drain of the shower. That's when I noticed water coming out the galley sink through hull. The engine room pumps I believe drain overboard on the stbd side. I'm not comfortable having someone lean over while underway to actually see if water is coming out when the light is on.

SO - Thinking about this this morning - could the sump box pump be what trips the light to come on? Unfortunately I'm not at the boat to be able to manually turn on the sump box pump to see if I get an indicator.

Could there be enough water in the various hoses that are draining back to the box? Seems unlikely because there is a check valve. Could it be the AC condensate is filling the box with residual water in the pan/line and causing it come on based on the angle of the boat on plane? OR - does the sump pump have no connection to the bilge light and everything that's happening is coming from the engine room pumps?

 

[CliffA]

I believe the bilge warning light can be triggered by the high water bilge pump in the engine room sump 'AND' the bilge pump in the sump in the aft cabin...the only purpose for the aft cabin sump is to collect water in the cabin floor that is not supposed to be there......the collector box bilge pump (located mid cabin) is expected to run off and on due to condensate water from the AC unit and water from the shower so it is not connected to the bilge warning light....on my boat the cabin sink drains directly overboard and not into the collector box....

cliff

 

[DaleM]

Thanks - I agree the sink doesn't drain to the box. It does drain overboard. From what I saw the sump box when full must be connected to that same plumbing run as it drains overboard through the same thru-hull as the sink. I guess I need to plan on getting a way to determine if there is water pumping out of the drains of the bilge when underway.

 

[CliffA]

Thanks - I agree the sink doesn't drain to the box. It does drain overboard. From what I saw the sump box when full must be connected to that same plumbing run as it drains overboard through the same thru-hull as the sink. I guess I need to plan on getting a way to determine if there is water pumping out of the drains of the bilge when underway.

according to my owner's manual the aft cabin sump and the cabin collector box and the cabin sink all have separate thru-hulls......

if you run the genny and AC while underway then the condensate from the AC will drain as needed while underway.....

it will be tough to see if the ER bilge pump is coming on when underay....my thru-hull for the ER bilge pumps is under the swim platform...your boat layout could be different...

cliff

 

[Lazy Daze]

How long is "x" time, Dale? Could it be just a second or two, or is it more like the amount of time a bilge pump would "typically" run? Have the float switches been moved from their original position? I've occasionally seen a float switch mounted in such a position that as the boat porpoises up and down through a chop, the switch actually lifts up due to the bouncing. Changing the orientation of the switch fixed it.

To at least narrow it down to which switch is lighting the light (I wasn't aware the cabin switch would light the dash light), maybe just tape (or wedge down) one of the switches. At least this way you'll know where to put your focus.

 

[DaleM]

my thru-hull for the ER bilge pumps is under the swim platform...your boat layout could be different...

Mine come through the stbd aft area of the hull.


Dennis - I'd say it will come on for maybe 45 seconds to a minute - so maybe around the typical time. I will have to assume the floats are in their original position unless the PO changed them - I haven't. Your comment about porpoising makes me wonder if that could be it. We did have a good bit of chop this weekend.

In your experience have you see the float orientation work better in one position compared to another? I *think* the floats in the bilge are oriented port/stbd as opposed to bow/stern (if that makes sense). They are on the centerline.

Wedging off a float is a good idea too. That way, if there is water coming in it should still be there once I get back.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Well, if the light is turning on for that amount of time (especially if it's at a somewhat regular interval?), then I think my theory holds less credence. Unless the switch is somehow "hanging up" for a bit... but then it would be less likely to bounce up in the first place, too. I didn't look at the wiring schematic for your model yet (to double check that the cabin pump will light the dash light), but I would focus on the cabin pump and possibly the check valve being faulty. Combined with the AC condensate as mentioned -- it could be one, the other, or a combination.

"In your experience have you see the float orientation work better in one position compared to another?"
While this is in no way an exhaustive or 100% accurate response, and if my memory is working properly, I believe this issue is more prevalent when the switch is oriented bow/stern with the pivot point towards the stern. It would have to be some pretty good chop, though.

Idea: Duct tape your phone in the bilge and set it on record to watch the float switch. Unless it's a "hidden inside a holey box" kind where you can't really see the actual float, anyways. However, if you wedge one of them down, and you still get the light, you know the other switch is the culprit. If you don't get a light, that's not as definitive so you'd then have to wedge the other one down to be sure.

 

[DaleM]

Idea: Duct tape your phone in the bilge and set it on record to watch the float switch.

I can see my wife's expression now when I ask to use HER phone

I wish in a way the light came on at a regular interval. I haven't noticed it to 'feel' that way.

Good idea though. I'll pull the wiring diagrams as well. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Lazy Daze]

I can see my wife's expression now when I ask to use HER phone

Yeah, I don't think it would go over all that well for me, either, if I asked to use my wife's phone! Got an old one laying around?

I think the wedging of the switches should be enough to figure this out, though.

 

[bankyf]

I just recently replaced all my thru hulls, so I can say with certainty how the front plumbing works. The AC condensation pan and the shower drain run to the sump box. Their is one large thru hull (1-1/4" I believe on the front port side, right next to the AC cooling water drain. That large thru hull is a common drain for the sump box, the galley sink, the head sink and the front bilge pump. It is simply an assortment of PVC adapters combining all four right behind that large thru hull.

 

[DaleM]

I like the wedge idea and thanks for the information on the drain locations.

We have a trip coming up this weekend that should give me plenty of time to determine if a wedged float will correct this. Pieces of magic eraser should make decent pieces of soft wedge material.

 

[CliffA]

I just recently replaced all my thru hulls, so I can say with certainty how the front plumbing works. The AC condensation pan and the shower drain run to the sump box. Their is one large thru hull (1-1/4" I believe on the front port side, right next to the AC cooling water drain. That large thru hull is a common drain for the sump box, the galley sink, the head sink and the front bilge pump. It is simply an assortment of PVC adapters combining all four right behind that large thru hull.

that is only true for the later design 340's...the 1999 - early 2003 models have separate thru-hulls for each drain.....

cliff

 

[bankyf]

Correct, Dale M has the late model 340 and my response was in regards to his question as to how the front plumbing was configured for his boat.

that is only true for the later design 340's...the 1999 - early 2003 models have separate thru-hulls for each drain.....

cliff

 

[aerobat77]

next time the light comes on underway i would look at the overboard drain if it is actually pumping water out or running dry .

 

[tony357]

could there be water in the hull laying fwd while on plane water runs to stern and float kicks on, when you stop water lays back fwd.. need to check if water actually pumps out when it kicks on..

Any signs of water leak around exhaust bellows or cooling system components ? engine should be looked over real good..

 

[DaleM]

So here's what I know. Unfortunately the puzzle isn't solved yet. I took the quick way out first to troubleshoot.

I checked the interval of the light - it's not "regular" as I indicated. It came on while in some medium chop. When it came on I leaned out and checked - no water coming out of the discharge. The light remained on for about 5 minutes and then turned off. During the time it was on I didn't feel the boat 'sag', slow down, or anything else that I would expect of we were taking on water.

I'll assume it's not the high-water alarm because when I tested that one Friday it did sound the alarm and I'm not hearing that when the light turns on. The high water float is mounted in a bow-stern direction. But if that one was the culprit due to bounce, I would expect the alarm.

I haven't blocked the float yet as discussed. The rear bilge float is mounted at an angle - think "diagonal" - not port/stbd nor bow/stern. So this one could still be a source as could the sump.

I did find an old thread where someone mentioned their pumps coming on and noticed a potential leak in the dripless seals. Since v-drives are pretty new to me I need to spend some time looking around this area to see if there's any water issues and understanding better how all of that works. I'll double check all of the exhaust clamps, etc as mentioned also in the cooling system.

 

[Kelskat]

Dale, have you figured it out yet??

 

[Lazy Daze]

Does this only happen once when out for a run? Or does it repeat?

5 minutes is a long time for the pump to be on. The sump will obviously empty in just a fraction of that time. And if the bilge sump was on for that long (due to water), there would be an awful lot of water in there. I gotta think it's going to be a sticky float switch - possibly an electrical glitch somewhere - but let's hope for the sticking switch.

 

[DaleM]

[/QUOTE]Does this only happen once when out for a run? Or does it repeat?[/QUOTE]

Dennis, sometimes it's a once and done, sometimes it's not at all.

I haven't figured it out. I found out I have Tides dripless seals. I looked all around them and there's no sign of water - nothing dripping nor a telltale water stain on the bilge. I was down in there with motors running and couldn't find a source of a leak but I was being pretty cautious as to not burn myself or get eaten alive. Maybe I need to be at a higher RPM other than idle.

I played with the rear float switch and it seemed free to move. This weekend I'm going to run with the engine room open if it's not rough to see what there is to see.

 

[DaleM]

I should've thought about this earlier but it just dawned on me this morning that I did have to fix a broken wire on the rear float switch itself back in early March. I'm wondering if it's water logged or somehow the electrical glitch that Dennis mentions. I can promise you I'll be checking into it this weekend!