Battery question

S

Steve04

Member
Jan 15, 2007
62
Long Island NY South Shore
Boat Info
34 Sundancer 2004
Engines
8.1s twins
Since I may have to replace my stb bank of batteries, tomorrow, can I switch two out of the four to Gel, or AMG or do I have to remain with flooded batteries until I purchase all four of the same type at once.
I have a problem that might stem from a bad battery and I am perparing to purchase new ones so that I can fix my gauges which are run by the stb side bank. Any comments on the type of batteries to use.

Steve 04
 
What kind/year of boat do you have? Well... what I am asking is what kind of charger do you have.

I just swapped out my wet cell D batteries for AGM D batteries. I'll never go back to wet cell. I've ruined more clothes over the years that I could have bought new batteries every year...
 
I am not running a Gen so this may not apply. I have used both lead acid and gel batteries. They both have their benefits and risks. The Gel when fully charged is fantastic for powering my stereo and stuff but once drained it seems like it takes days to return them to full charge. After getting fed up with them so many times I just took them back and exchanged for 27 seris Interstate Deep cycles. They take no time to charge but are not quite as ballsy in providing peak power. But on the wate I would rather have reliability vs. strength.
 
Don't confuse Gel batteries with AGM batteries. They are not the same thing. AGM is a lead acid battery but is not a wet cell lead acid battery.
 
Oh pardon me, god forbid me not to be as knowledgable as you. I was only trying to give my 2 cents but as usual the bigger boat causes a bigger wake.
 
Kurt, your response is out of line. Yet another heroic backhanded slap at a diesel boat guy from somebody too cheap to even pony up the 25 bucks to help Jim offset the cost of the site. Well done!
And God gets a capital "G"
-Or- you are really a 10 year old who snuck onto Daddy's computer. Back to the Disney website if you please...


Steve, what model and year of boat? As Gary alludes to, the year affects the charger technology you have aboard.
I replaced all 5 Group 27 wet cells when I bought my '03 used in '06. I elected to go with Optima Absorbed Glass Mat, or AGM, batteries.

http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/

While only two of the five factory batteries failed the survey load test, I did not want to be fooling around with batteries that might conk out soon after I took delivery. I found the AGMs at a local battery distributor, Batteries Plus, and they were about $180 per, I think. I am sold on the AGMs. I am now in season 3 of use and I have spent zero time maintaining them. Bolt them in and forget about them. I elected to go with the "blue top" Optima deep cycle models, but in hindsight could have probably gone with the slightly less expensive Optima "red top" cranking version, since I run my gen set continuously when away from shore power. It takes a fair amount of power to turn the Cummins over, and the Cummins pre-heaters take a lot of energy. The Optima AGMs have never let me down.

regards
Skip
 
Steve04 said:
Since I may have to replace my stb bank of batteries, tomorrow, can I switch two out of the four to Gel, or AMG or do I have to remain with flooded batteries until I purchase all four of the same type at once.
I have a problem that might stem from a bad battery and I am perparing to purchase new ones so that I can fix my gauges which are run by the stb side bank. Any comments on the type of batteries to use.

Steve 04
Click to expand...


You cannot mix batteries because the voltage required to recharge them is different for gel/agm compared to conventional flooded batteries. I do not have the exact numbers but I believe the agm/gel batteries take a 14.2 volt input and the flooded batteries take 14.7 or visa versa. My last two boats [2004 340 sundancer, 2007 sundancer] both had switches on the charger to select the charger voltage output for either gel/agm or flooded batteries. I did replace all the batteries on my 340 with gel batteries but I was disappointed with their performance with regard to their capacity. I seemed to give up about 25% of my total amp-hours available compared to the original flooded batteries. Even when they were new, I could not overnight without the batteries draining to the point that I had to bridge the battery banks together in order to start the main engines. That never happened with the original batteries. However, I did notice that they would recharge significantly faster than the originals. When you shop around for the agm/gel battery you will notice that they are rated for less amp hours than the same size conventional battery.
I do believe the best deal on a deep cycle marine battery is the group 29 from Interstate Battery. This battery will fit in the oem battery tray that sea ray uses, whereas the group 31 size will not fit. A group 29 has almost the same capacity of a 31. Last year I bought 12 of these from the Interstate distributer and I paid $85.00 per battery.


Hope this helps you out.
 
Yeah Kurt....I think Gary's comment is great for those looking to learn a bit about batteries. Your comment is out of line.

I have a ProNautic 1240i charger that allows me to select the type of batteries I have. I have lead acid. It charges in 3 banks, but they all have to be the same type.
The batteries I have are new, from the PO(Nov '07) but will heed the advice of the Lowly Oil burners and go with AGM's next.
 
Hey-that is Mr. Lowly Oil Burner, Pal.
I have to tell you Todd, that shot of Rainier takes me back to three very good years as an Army Officer at Ft. Lewis, 88-91. We used to Ski on American Lake every weekend we were not in the field. Good times. Extraordinary scenery.
Gas was cheaper then, too.

regards
Skip
 
Guys, thanks, I went with 2 new Exide Group 29 wet cell, as I did not know the answer to the Gel vs AMG charging I have a 2004 34 Sundancer, the concern I have and will find out tomorrow Friday the 30th is my gauges on the dash, were not working and the RPM indicator signal a No Techno found. I am hoping that the discharge of the stb batteries did not harm the instruments. both the digital and analog meters did not work, even after starting the engines. Does anyone know why this may have happen?
Steve 04.
 
Wow... I guess I got bitch slapped for pointing out something that is pretty important when looking at batteries. A couple of posts here are just wrong though so do your own research. There are many places out on the Internet to educate yourself... here's one that discusses chargers:

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_chargers.html

As you can see, wet cell and AGM basically charge the same way. It's the Gel batteries (not AGM) that are an issue and that's why some chargers have a switch for lead acid and gel. AGM batteries do not charge on the gel setting as they are not gel batteries. I just dumped some serious coin into four 8D AGM batteries and I am through with the wet cell stuff. I know on my charger there are 3 outlets for connections to three distinct batteries. I can't imagine why one of them being AGM and the other a wet cell lead acid would mater but I'm basing that on the limited reading I did on the subject over the past few weeks... ask a battery guy.


Steve04 said:
Guys, thanks, I went with 2 new Exide Group 29 wet cell, as I did not know the answer to the Gel vs AMG charging I have a 2004 34 Sundancer, the concern I have and will find out tomorrow Friday the 30th is my gauges on the dash, were not working and the RPM indicator signal a No Techno found. I am hoping that the discharge of the stb batteries did not harm the instruments. both the digital and analog meters did not work, even after starting the engines. Does anyone know why this may have happen?
Steve 04.
Click to expand...

I don't think you hurt anything. As I said, I've seen your symptoms on my boat when the battery has been run down. I would also assume you have a smart charger tied to multiple batteries like mine.... but... RTFM.
 
Gary, thanks for the input, though I maintain my boat myself some things jsut get me crazy. Having all the guages out, the battery switch light go out, and the volt meter show nothing, I thought that there would be enough juice in the batteries to at least run those items. Without things going down. I will keep you posted as i will install the batteries tomorrow.
steve04
 
Four Suns said:
Wow... I guess I got bitch slapped for pointing out something that is pretty important when looking at batteries. A couple of posts here are just wrong though so do your own research. There are many places out on the Internet to educate yourself... here's one that discusses chargers:

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_chargers.html

As you can see, wet cell and AGM basically charge the same way. It's the Gel batteries (not AGM) that are an issue and that's why some chargers have a switch for lead acid and gel. AGM batteries do not charge on the gel setting as they are not gel batteries. I just dumped some serious coin into four 8D AGM batteries and I am through with the wet cell stuff. I know on my charger there are 3 outlets for connections to three distinct batteries. I can't imagine why one of them being AGM and the other a wet cell lead acid would mater but I'm basing that on the limited reading I did on the subject over the past few weeks... ask a battery guy.




I don't think you hurt anything. As I said, I've seen your symptoms on my boat when the battery has been run down. I would also assume you have a smart charger tied to multiple batteries like mine.... but... RTFM.
Click to expand...



Gary,

With regard to AGM and Wet cell charging, the technical sheet that was glued to my battery indicates that the voltage required to recharge the AGM is quite different from a flooded cell or gel battery. The Deka battery technical sheet spells out the difference in voltage required for all three types of batteries in different temperatures. I just checked the battery charger for my boat and it does have 3 different settings for the three different battery types. The instruction manual for the charger indicates that using the wrong setting will undercharge the battery bank instead of overcharge because the rapid heat build-up will tell the charger to level off the charge before the battery is 100%. I am sure many people are currently charging whatever battery they are using on the wrong setting. I suppose it does not pose a safety problem but rather it just shortens the life of the battery bank.

By the way, that guy, Kurt, was way out of line. Maybe he should cut down his contribution to $.01 to this website for the time being.
 
For some reason the pages of the online manual for my charger are out of order(maybe that's how they print it to fold into the maunual) but there's some good info on it ProMariner Pronautic Manual

It indicates how the selection of battery types is done because of the different rates of voltage for charging the different types
 
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I checked my battery chargers today and they only have two settings: Lead acid and Gel. From what I've read, the gel batteries are the ones that can get damaged if they are put on a charger with too high of voltage (like a lead acid voltage) hence the switch. The voltage difference on the AGM vs wet cell was not that much if I recall. Something like 14.5 -14.7 volts for the AGM and 14.3 - 14.5 for the wet cell. The gel, however, was substantially lower than that if I recall.

Again, I'm no battery expert... I just did a little research to suit my needs before I bought 4 batteries that cost more than my first car did.

As far as the earlier dork that wanted to give me poop over my "don't confuse AGM with gel" comment, I was doing that because the downsides I hear about gel seem to be automatically applied to AGM and they should not be.... people just need to be careful what they read and verify it before they assume "AGM batteries are bad because John Doe had gel batteries and they didn't perform well".
 
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