Batteries question

[rszarka]

I have an issue where the water boiled out of my
Port batteries. I understand this is more than likely a charger issue.
Here is the thing that is confusing me, the batteries are dead will not retain any kind of a charge. When I plug into shore power ever since the batteries died anything on my 12 vdc panel will not work.
This includes the toilets much of the lighting water pumps and bilge pumps. Basically anything I am capable of running on the batteries system. Now if I turn on the converter none of this runs. Shouldn't this stuff run when I am plugged into shore power regardless of the batteries condition? Also both my 24 v panel and my 12 v panel are blank not showing any
Of voltage lights for anything running etc. I know I have 110 volts coming out of the atlas.
Certain systems and lights the ones that will not run on batteries all work.
Even if I power on the generator none of those systems or lights will work.
I also find it inherently dangerous that all bilge pumps are connected to just one set of batteries so if they die so do all my bilge pumps.
Could there be a fuse blown? Does this make sense that the batteries have to have charge and current can not run through from the shore power for all these systems to work.
It is not the sea ray original wiring. The previous owner had an atlas power converter put in so things are changed around a bit and I am starting to believe I have screwy wiring.
This happened once before where my port batteries went flat from me leaving a pump on for days and it was the same thing everything was down and blank until the batteries charged back up. So it seems like there must be power in those batteries for these systems to work even on shore power or generator.
Is this normal is this how it's should be wired? My guess is everything should run on gen or shore power regardless of what's going on with the batteries. I do not know too much about this stuff so that's why I am asking.
I have two new batteries on order and an electrician coming to diagnose the chargers. Funny here in Australia the biggest battery they make and you can get is an n200 which only has 1200 cca. My sea ray manual says you should have batteries with a minimum of 1400 cca. But they don't even have them available here. Will this all be ok with batteries of only 1200 cca? Oh the joys
Of owning a boat if I am
Not battling one thing it's another lol

 

[JimG]

My initial thought is a wiring issue. I would think that your inverter would run a limited amount of 12V devices... but if the batteries are trying to charge at too much current, the inverter could be shutting down. This is where I would be pulling out a meter and starting at the output of the inverter.

1200CCA would work for for a test... you could buy one and install it by itself and see if your systems come back up.

 

[rszarka]

Thanks a ton for the reply Jim. Here is the odd thing, there is no inverter on my boat or at least I believe there is none. Kind of odd for a 540. Would this make sense. I know there are three battery converter chargers but I have not been able to find an inverter so those systems have been running directly off the batteries and hence I believe having pretty short life when the converter / genset / shore power is not running. Could the cause of my batteries dying be the fact there is no inverter?? I have little to no knowledge on all of this so I apologize in advance if my questions seem dumb.
Would I be we'll served to get an inverter with my new batteries to prevent such problems again and have longer / stronger battery life?

 

[alnav]

Ray, I was looking at the manual for your boat on searay.com and it show there are solenoids for each of your main battery banks. If you haven't checked the switches for those they might be the problem and would explain your symptoms and might have all defaulted to off when you lost all power. There are two switches for each bank for 12V and 24V. There is a duplicate set of switches on the main DC panel in the engine room; you will probably be able to hear the solenoid throw with a popping sound if you energize them from the engine room panel. All the switches in both places need to be on. There are fuses associated with the solenoids that might need checking as well.
An inverter converts battery power to 110V power so that you could use batteries in lieu of the generator so they would only serve to drain power. You mentioned 3 converters and I assume you may have a thruster? There is usually a seperate bank and converter installed to serve a thruster.

 

[rszarka]

Alnav thanks so much for the info and taking the time to write
I have checked all of the switches they are all in the on position.
Any idea where those fuses are, I looked through my boats documentation at the wiring scheme and can not find them.
Although my port batteries went completely flat once before and this exact same thing happened. Only difference then once they charged up everything came back on line. These batteries will not hold any kind of a charge so all the systems are staying down.
It is odd before I left the boat a few days ago the batteries were retaining like 9 volts each as I was out at anchor and would just power the gen on with the converter for a bit and the batteries would be good to go for awhile. Left for a few days came back and they were completely flat which I expected but they will not charge up at all now. Where before they were weak and not very good but still working to an extent. Now I just get nothing! So yeah may be a fuse somewhere as it rained a lot here and my bilge pumps stopped when the batts went dead the water then rose above some wiring. Dunno may have tripped something?
Just went downstairs after your post, turned the converter on and took a peek. Doesn't look like the chargers are even coming on at all. What could cause all of that to stop working? I am hooked into shore power now. One half of the boat works, anything that does not run when I am just on batteries. Both panels are completely blank not showing anything.

The wiring is very screwy on this boat I have a feeling when the atlas was installed they changed many things around for the worse. Yes the third bank of batteries is for the bow thruster.

 

[alnav]

Ray, it sounds like your battery banks are not electrically isolated from each other. They should be unconnected except through the emergency start solenoid which is there so that you can draw power from one bank to the other just to get the engine started. If this is the case and the converters are trying to charge one big bank, just one bad cell in one of the batteries could be causing the big problems you are having as it draws down all the others. If you can, you might see if you can trace out the wiring on the battery banks to see if there is an obvious set of jumpers combining the batteries. In any event it seems to me that you need to get the batteries back into banks, find the bad ones and replace them then see if the system holds up by monitoring voltages and current draw. BTW, your batteries running down to 9 volts is scary, 10.5 volts is considered a dead 12V battery and you should generally avoid voltage less than 11.9 volts which is about 40% charged.

 

[rszarka]

Alnav:
This has all turned into a pretty serious problem that is confusing the hell out of me. Have a sparky electrics guy coming in as soon as i can get him.

Two of my battery banks are connected together by what's called a vanner battery equalizer. Well it looks like my port bank going bad drug down my starboard bank as well so I have two banks of bad batteries now.

Two of the batteries are reading a negative reading in milli volts. I am guessing I must replace all four now. As once a 12 v battery goes way down like that it is ruined right??

Another thing my converter will not come on at all. Could this be because of the reverse polarity or should I also expect that to be ruined now. It's crazy one bad 12 v battery and me not knowing what to do has wrecked my entire battery system on this boat apart from my bow thruster bank. I have to have an electrician come in as I am scared I will put in the four new batteries and something will wreck them.

Any advice guys.

Here's the situation. My port bank one sitting at 3 v the other in the negative milli volts. They are now disconnected from all electrical systems.

Starboard bank again one sitting at 4 v the other in the negative. Still connected to wiring.

The converter will not come on.

There is a vanner battery equalizer connected to the system which I guess tried to equalize the weak battery and dragged all the others down with it.

Dunno what the hell to do get four new batteries but what if I connect them all up and something wrecks em all it's 1500 bucks. Just a real mess!!

 

[IanBat]

Send me a pm, with your battery details, if you haven't bought them yet, I will see what price I can do. May be able to spare some time in the next week or two, to jump on board and go through a few things with you if you like.

 

[rszarka]

Ian: thanks so much for the offer of help!
I had one hell of a time today getting those damned batteries out of the engine room!! Wow they are heavy and very hard to get out of tight awkward places!! My bad back will be feeling this for awhile!!
I have someone from a battery company coming tomorrow morning they r taking the batteries back to their shop to see if they are still good or can not be repaired. They explained some process where they bring the battery to zero then hit then with a heavy charge which sometimes can fix a bad one. Dunno if I understand how it works but figured was worth a try before shelling out money for four new ones!
If they need to be replaced I will pm you about your offer !
As for getting together the boat is a total wreck right now. No batteries no Bimini just the biggest wreck it has been since I have owned her. Hope to have it all back together by the end of this week then we can work on a time for a get together will head to fb in the morn answer your msgs.