Automatic Generator Start- Automatic Transfer Switch?

[dtfeld]

On the 410, the generator controls are a little spread out, and just not convenient. On/Off, Start/Stop and preheat all on the main electrical panel down in the cabin. The engine gauges are on a panel in the cockpit. Both located behind a door, so seldom monitored unless there’s a problem. The alarms are on the Sea Ray Systems Monitor at the helm. No way to start or monitor from the helm.

I’d like to consolidate, and simplify the operation, possibly down to a single start/ stop button, consolidate all system monitoring and switching to a single location. Being able to get all the info on the N2K network would be even better. All of this in one device would also be ideal, but I think not possible.

A couple ways I can think of, including using the auto gen start feature for my Magnum Energy inverter, but it doesn’t offer a lot of options for monitoring.

There are a number of commercially available systems and these are finding there way into RV’s. I think one could be adapted to the boat, but they are Chinese and the manuals are going to be a big challenge.

Anybody contemplate this?

 

[dtfeld]

These guys are UK based with a USA office…

 

[ttmott]

Hey David - Some food for thought; here is my autostart design. It's for an Onan but I'm sure it could be configured for a Wester. Look on the right side of the first drawing for the timer relays. The second is as the boat is originally configured and where the timer circuit ties into.

 

[dtfeld]

Hey David - Some food for thought; here is my autostart design. It's for an Onan but I'm sure it could be configured for a Wester. Look on the right side of the first drawing for the timer relays. The second is as the boat is originally configured and where the timer circuit ties into.
View attachment 130667

View attachment 130668

Is that an Onan part, or is that what you built? I have considered a programmable relay/ timer. My background is industrial automation, so certainly easy enough, and this may be part of an eventual solution.

can you describe the function…looking at the relays trying to decipher what your doing…

However, these purpose designed units incorporate a lot of safety /shutdown features, and possibly an ATS. It be great if the gen manufacturers thought if this.

 

[ttmott]

Is that an Onan part, or is that what you built? I have considered a programmable relay/ timer. My background is industrial automation, so certainly easy enough, and this may be part of an eventual solution.

can you describe the function…looking at the relays trying to decipher what your doing…

However, these purpose designed units incorporate a lot of safety /shutdown features, and possibly an ATS. It be great if the gen manufacturers thought if this.

My design. The battery/inverter system calls for charge and energizes the trigger relay. The trigger relay initializes the start relay. The start relay is a timer relay in that when the coil is energized the relay closes for X amount of time then opens. That relay time is whatever is needed for the generator's start sequence; for Onan it is 20 seconds. It resets after the timer elapses and the coil voltage is removed. When the system says I'm fully charged voltage is removed from the trigger relay then the shutdown relay energizes for X amount of time then opens and it resets when voltage is removed from the coil. The timer relays remove voltage from their coils when the timer elapses so there is never constant voltage on any of the timer relays. Voltage is constant on the trigger relay when charge is demanded and generator is running for charging.

The great thing about this configuration is the OEM start and shutdown switches are still fully functional as well as the Fireboy shutdown system

 

[dtfeld]

This is the Magnum Energy AGS. Looks to be doing something very similar to yours. I’m considering this as it’s really a programmable relay via my inverter remote.

I think I could add a couple of remote start switches as I think it just looking for a start stop signal 12VDC in my case. Would still need to put some monitoring on it…possibly Maretron or Actisense.

 

[Skybolt]

Not sure what auto start means in this case. But I have this installed and it works great and can be set up to monitor everything and it will display all AC parameters as well along with alarms which are split with the system monitor as well. This handles all of the starting functions, it's just one button to start.

http://www.smartgen-america.com/cat...ual-remote-start-generator-controller-module/

Edit: I should point out that I also have this setup for N2K and use a DSM410 at the helm dedicated to the generator.

 

[dtfeld]

Not sure what auto start means in this case. But I have this installed and it works great and can be set up to monitor everything and it will display all AC parameters as well along with alarms which are split with the system monitor as well. This handles all of the starting functions, it's just one button to start.

http://www.smartgen-america.com/cat...ual-remote-start-generator-controller-module/

Edit: I should point out that I also have this setup for N2K and use a DSM410 at the helm dedicated to the generator.

I looked at these...they would do exactly what I want to do. How did you integrate N2K?

 

[Skybolt]

I looked at these...they would do exactly what I want to do. How did you integrate N2K?

I didn't through that device, I am using a combination of Maretron ACM100 and Actisense EMU-1 for engine/AC data for N2K.

The smartgen operates the timing for the pre-heat and staring etc. It also has the alarms (idiot lights) and AC data through the Smartgen display as well. I couldn't find an N2K device, 485 and some CAN bus, but none with N2K protocol. So I added what I am using for the main engines to the generator. Works great, no issues at all with this setup.

 

[dtfeld]

I didn't through that device, I am using a combination of Maretron ACM100 and Actisense EMU-1 for engine/AC data for N2K.

The smartgen operates the timing for the pre-heat and staring etc. It also has the alarms (idiot lights) and AC data through the Smartgen display as well. I couldn't find an N2K device, 485 and some CAN bus, but none with N2K protocol. So I added what I am using for the main engines to the generator. Works great, no issues at all with this setup.

That’s what I thought. Can you use you digital switching to drive the generator start sequence?

 

[Skybolt]

That’s what I thought. Can you use you digital switching to drive the generator start sequence?

I guess you could, but I don't see it working the way it should. As cool as digital switching is, I still have a manual override panel for everything. I like having the generator on it's own system, everything for the generator turns on with the generator breaker, shut that breaker off and the gen follows, the way it should. The smart gen control operates the gen and everything can be viewed from that alone, adding in n2k is a bonus so it can be viewed anywhere but is nice to have a dedicated screen just for that.

I did the same thing for my engines, an EMU-1 and GMI20 turn on/off of that engines breaker, dedicated controls for what they monitor, exactly like it would from the factory. JMO, but it all makes sense if you jumped on the boat and tried to operate it. Turn that system on and you have whats needed to monitor/operate it no other switches.

So to look at your question, I guess you could have a switch for the on, then another for the pre-heat and another for start. The switches can be programmed to operate to follow the switch state. But you already have that right? The big benefit of DS is being able to monitor/change the state of things remotely. Turning things on before you get to the boat has benefit. Again JMO.