As boaters we all should be concerned about General Motors

[Hampton]

I have owned/driven a 2001 GM truck for 7 1/2 years and 75,000 miles without a single problem. I towed my 250 DA with it for years.

I have a 2004 Mitsubishi GT Spyder Conv with 65,000 miles and it's 5th transmission (true, but only 1 or 2 really went bad in the car - the rest were sent from a used part dealer and were bad when we got them).

 

[tawcat]

If a company goes bankrupt, the people with health benefits, etc are left in the cold... You know the whole COBRA thing? If your company goes bankrupt, there ain't no COBRA...

Not trying to argue or start one. But don't ya'll think that one of the problems in this country is too many socialized programs? Between welfare, food stamps, WIC, "whatever state" First for Kids etc. we are going broke. My wife works in a very prominent hospital, you'd be surprised of the folks that come in to the grant office requesting $$$. One question on the request is what model/year automobile do you own? Cannot tell you how Escalades, Lexus', and Land Rovers are listed. And we're giving these people money.

I feel sorry for all the good working people that are being affected. I say stop the $$$$ for all the people that on these programs, give them a job working for one of the Big Three, and divert the social program $$$$ to the businesses that agree to employ these people.

 

[wileecoyote]

How do you know that? Bombardier does a fine job in running an engine plant....

This whole thing about "3M people will be out of jobs" is crap IMO. If the government is so worried about it, then have a government appointed bankruptcy trustee make sure the assets (i.e. the businesses) are placed/sold/restructured in a timely manner. If you could buy all of GM for $10 in cash with no liabilities, you would do it... and employ people and build cars a lot cheaper. Why the hell are we trying to save GM shareholders right now?

No one stepped up to the plate to help out the corner hardware stores when Wal-Mart moved in... but if Wal-Mart is going to go under, we would use tax payer $$ to save them? What gives?

The void will be filled... if it isn't, there wasn't a viable business there to begin with...

Go read the history of Honda motor company....

Sorry, did Merc start an Aerospace line? Oh, maybe thats where some of the 747 million in income came from for Bombardier, while Brunswick LOST 572 million. Don't think they're looking to buy an engine plan. Not arguing your point, just don't think it would ever happen, unless they are stupid!

 

[Tonka Boater]

<deleted>

 

[Nehalennia]

When is it spring, When is it spring, When is it spring, When is it spring, ?

 

[tawcat]

I agree we shouldn't be bailing these effer's out and you can say what you want about the unions...blah, blah, blah.

You can all say "tough it out", find a new job, etc. But everyone has a story and this isn't always about money.

I'd be dead, literally, had I lost my health insurance and didn't have COBRA when my wife got a new job. It's hard to beat cancer on your own or pay for treatment without insurance. Each round of chemo was $20K. I'd be broke or dead. My boat was my own "remission gift" to myself and I wouldn't have it or my life without insurance.

Fine, curse the dipsh!ts that run these places but let's not forget these are real people with real issues that get affected. Kids to raise, health issues, parents to support, etc. I guarantee there is a GM employee who has a kid in the chemo chair wondering about life right now.

You're right no doubt about it. But if you look at the big picture, not only did the auto business get of hand so did health care. Again, I promise I am not trying to argue or start one. But we, the good hard working people of this country allowed the friggin tree huggers to put so many BS laws, rules etc into affect that the little things started costing us.

I'm 62, believe me when I was growing up, if I did not produce in work I got fired. There no counselors to help me because someone died. There were no programs short of 36 weeks of unemployment if I lost my job due to lay-offs. There were no such things as sexual harassment. Should I go on.

We became a country of being taken care of. I am assuming, and I really hate that word, that the majority of folks on this board fall into the category I do. Middle class, bust your a$$ every day to make a buck. I would also bet that most have health insurance that you pay for and have to pay a co-pay each time we go see our doc.

So where in the hell did we go wrong? My dad rest his soul, preached, good education, and hard work is going to get you everywhere. Don't expect anyone to hand you this life on a silver platter. Sadly, my dad never got to tell the folks on capital hill this.

Other problem is we have too damn many professional politicians. Trust me our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. Their idea of free government with people elected officials was not what we have today. They figured we'd elect Joe the Farmer or even Joe the Plumber, let them serve a term or two and then send them back to the farm or plumbing. Our government is tainted. You don't hear them saying we won't take a raise this year, or lets follow Walmart and cut our salaries by 10%.

I used to use this statement a lot when I was in the military, "sometimes ya gotta let it break, so we can fix it."

We are in trouble, big trouble. And ya know, no one yet has brought up the real threat. There is some piss ant country out there that is waiting to pounce. And it's possible we are not going to have enough strength or resources to overcome and sustain. Somehow, I'm glad I'm 62. More years behind me than ahead!!!!!

 

[Hampton]

I agree we shouldn't be bailing these effer's out and you can say what you want about the unions...blah, blah, blah.

You can all say "tough it out", find a new job, etc. But everyone has a story and this isn't always about money.

I'd be dead, literally, had I lost my health insurance and didn't have COBRA when my wife got a new job. It's hard to beat cancer on your own or pay for treatment without insurance. Each round of chemo was $20K. I'd be broke or dead. My boat was my own "remission gift" to myself and I wouldn't have it or my life without insurance.

Fine, curse the dipsh!ts that run these places but let's not forget these are real people with real issues that get affected. Kids to raise, health issues, parents to support, etc. I guarantee there is a GM employee who has a kid in the chemo chair wondering about life right now.

Very sad situation, but completely beside the point. At least 80% of the employees actually work.

 

[wileecoyote]

In that case, I wonder what is in that big long black and white building along highway 41 in Fond du Lac, Wisconisn?

Evidently it's not an engine plant, just a plant that adapts Gm engines to marine apps.


The GM strike is just one of many difficulties MerCruiser has had to overcome while working with General Motors. Although MerCruiser is the "whale" of the OEM engine consumers and dominates the marine market even to the extent of being involved in FTC monopoly investigations, it is a small "minnow" to the automotive super-power. What seems like a huge consumer from one side of the fence is seen as a "flyspeck" from the other side. GM changes engine designs, brings out new models, and discontinues models with little concern for what havoc it might create at MerCruiser (or other marine OEM's). MerCruiser is held captive to take whatever engines GM is willing to send them, whenever they send them.

 

[wileecoyote]

You're right no doubt about it. But if you look at the big picture, not only did the auto business get of hand so did health care. Again, I promise I am not trying to argue or start one. But we, the good hard working people of this country allowed the friggin tree huggers to put so many BS laws, rules etc into affect that the little things started costing us.

I'm 62, believe me when I was growing up, if I did not produce in work I got fired. There no counselors to help me because someone died. There were no programs short of 36 weeks of unemployment if I lost my job due to lay-offs. There were no such things as sexual harassment. Should I go on.

We became a country of being taken care of. I am assuming, and I really hate that word, that the majority of folks on this board fall into the category I do. Middle class, bust your a$$ every day to make a buck. I would also bet that most have health insurance that you pay for and have to pay a co-pay each time we go see our doc.

So where in the hell did we go wrong? My dad rest his soul, preached, good education, and hard work is going to get you everywhere. Don't expect anyone to hand you this life on a silver platter. Sadly, my dad never got to tell the folks on capital hill this.

Other problem is we have too damn many professional politicians. Trust me our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. Their idea of free government with people elected officials was not what we have today. They figured we'd elect Joe the Farmer or even Joe the Plumber, let them serve a term or two and then send them back to the farm or plumbing. Our government is tainted. You don't hear them saying we won't take a raise this year, or lets follow Walmart and cut our salaries by 10%.

I used to use this statement a lot when I was in the military, "sometimes ya gotta let it break, so we can fix it."

We are in trouble, big trouble. And ya know, no one yet has brought up the real threat. There is some piss ant country out there that is waiting to pounce. And it's possible we are not going to have enough strength or resources to overcome and sustain. Somehow, I'm glad I'm 62. More years behind me than ahead!!!!!

AMEN!
Your father was a smart man!:smt038 I'm 37, and was taught the own thing. It taught me to deal with things as if it's all on me. Depend on no one.

 

[Tonka Boater]

<deleted>

 

[Tonka Boater]

<deleted>

 

[rondds]

I was listening to the Patriot Channel on Sirius on my way home from work tonight and a guy called in to the Mark Levin show suggesting that the UAW pension fund lend the big THREE the money for the bailout. "Sheer Genius," I thought! It'll never happen and I'm not sure they're solvent enough or have enough to do it (if they were solvent) but it'd sure give auto workers some incentive to be reasonable at the bargaining table next go-around.

When is it spring, When is it spring, When is it spring, When is it spring, ?

164 days til launch!

 

[SeaRide]

Evidently it's not an engine plant, just a plant that adapts Gm engines to marine apps.

MerCruiser marinizes their GM based marine engines in Stillwater, OK. Fond du Lac manufactures many of Mercury's outboards.

 

[Presentation]

Evidently it's not an engine plant, just a plant that adapts Gm engines to marine apps

Nope, nope, not true. Fond du Lac is a engine plant. The foundry is in plant #17. Been there, seen it seen it with my own eyes. Liquid stuff in hear, engine block pops out over there.

Now if you said "Mercury does not make its own 4.3L V6 or 5.0L, 5.7L small block V8's that are used in the I/O units sold under the Merc Cruiser brand, then I'd have no argument. But Mercury does make engine blocks. Sometimes they even make engine blocks FOR GM, such as in the Corvette ZR-1.

 

[VTSeaRay]

First, Toyota is now hurting quite badly. With their stunning success in leading the charge for hybrids comes their now disastrous decision to get into the large pickup truck field.

Well, not 100% true, yes, they're hurting, but not like the Big 3. Oh, and their employees at the Tundra Mfg plant have been spending their down time for the past 3 months when the factory was shut down due to a drop in sales, out working on community projects in the neighborhood. The real difference can be seen here: The CEO for Toyota makes 1M /yr on 5 Billion projected profits this yr, while the Ford CEO, makes 21.7M on 7.5B in proj'd losses, the GM guy, earns 14.4M on 15.9Billion in projected losses. The employees at Toyota may have lower salaries, but they were paid their normal salary during the 3 month downtime. And from it, Toyota and Honda are still doing well, and looking to grow in the future! The headset for these companies is, the first to go is the people at the top of the company, not the workers that make the company go. Personally, I think it was a smart business move to close the factory that way. There are still plenty of new Tundras in the Toyota dealership next door to where I work. They had a surplus in the downturned economy, and they knew one of the better ways to handle it.
I applaud them!

American company leaders need to understand that if their company is faltering, they need to take responsibility for it. Boards should be calling for it.

Getting rid of employees that are doing the work, will not rid the system of excess overhead and waste and faulty business practices.

-VtSeaRay

 

[Hampton]

When I was a poor college student studying to go to Med School (which I did, for 2 years), my father had retired from 30 years military service and was a family financial planner. He showed me that, with very little savings/investment discipline, a high school graduate from Detroit that got hired into the business in the UAW had greater wealth potential than almost any doctor.

That's when I first realized how powerful, and powerfully destructive the unions in this country could be. If it keeps an airline pilot from flying 12 hours a day, 7 days a week - Great! If it keeps kids out of dangerous factories - Great! If it protects average citizens from extremely dangerous job conditions - Great! If it allows a workforce to destroy one of the major industries in this country in the name of laziness and greed - Screw 'em!!!!!!

 

[TomT]

Gary, not quite true. I got the t-shirt. Chapter 11 is first and it's reorganization. All the union contracts are up for negotiation, the only thing is the unions have a gun at their heads. Agree to this or it's liquidation, Chapter 7. So everyone hudles, swears at each other and the judge and an agreement is reached. In our case no health benefits were lost even for the retirees. As far as the pension, I lost 75 percent of my expected payout after 30 years of service. If the plan is funded it can be frozen. A snapshot of if you retired right now this is what you would get sort of thing. Much better than a termination and the defined benefit would be replaced with a 401k for everyone. This isn't really directed at you but just some info for the thread. The Pension Benefit Guarantee Board is the Quasi government agency that takes over pension obligations and they are almost "insolvent" after the airline mess but the way government is handing out Billions now I don't see any problem . Like most I think the big three need to declare BANKRUPTCY and go through the process like we (airlines) did. We never even skipped a beat. The suppliers were all paid and kept on supplying. This is the last big union bust in America....not my wish but reality...

 

[rondds]

My first boat, a 1988 Regal 190 Sebring, had a funky Mercruiser 3.7L 4 banger with a 2bbl carb that made 170 HP (?) The engine did not have an alternator - rather it had a system like an outboard motor to charge the battery. At a boat show, I stopped at the Mercruiser booth to ask about which automotive block was used to manufacture this engine. The salesman said it was Merc's own design. I don't know if he was right, but that engine was very short lived - probably most people on this site never even heard of it. It was very economical but apparently they had a lot of problems with the charging system and an aftermarket alternator adaptor appeared.

I never had any trouble it was apparently the "Edsel" of Mercruisers and was soon replaced with the 3.0L and the 4.3L.

 

[VRay]

I thought perhaps these links of UAW President Ron Gettelfinger's press conference today may be of interest.

11.20.2008
UAW news conference videos and transcript: 'Inaction is not an option.'

 

[Pseudomind]

Well, not 100% true, yes, they're hurting, but not like the Big 3. Oh, and their employees at the Tundra Mfg plant have been spending their down time for the past 3 months when the factory was shut down due to a drop in sales, out working on community projects in the neighborhood. The real difference can be seen here: The CEO for Toyota makes 1M /yr on 5 Billion projected profits this yr, while the Ford CEO, makes 21.7M on 7.5B in proj'd losses, the GM guy, earns 14.4M on 15.9Billion in projected losses. The employees at Toyota may have lower salaries, but they were paid their normal salary during the 3 month downtime. And from it, Toyota and Honda are still doing well, and looking to grow in the future! The headset for these companies is, the first to go is the people at the top of the company, not the workers that make the company go. Personally, I think it was a smart business move to close the factory that way. There are still plenty of new Tundras in the Toyota dealership next door to where I work. They had a surplus in the downturned economy, and they knew one of the better ways to handle it.
I applaud them!

American company leaders need to understand that if their company is faltering, they need to take responsibility for it. Boards should be calling for it.

Getting rid of employees that are doing the work, will not rid the system of excess overhead and waste and faulty business practices.

-VtSeaRay

Touche' :thumbsup:

[Spell Check]two pointy-fangers (Um..spell check...umh) :lol::smt043[/Spell Check]