Anyone have Xenta?

[WDCboater]

I'm at the Ft Lauderdale boat show and spent a good time today with the sales rep from Xenta.

This is is a system that can be put in a existing boat, especially SeaRays with DTS, to give you joystick control. It works with V drive boats that have a bow thruster. Basically turns a v drive boat into an "Axius" style boat.

Does anyone have experience with it?

I noticed Azimut puts this system on their new boats with Cummins v drives.

By by the way, if you're curious, the system runs about $17k!

 

[fwebster]

Be careful here. It seems like everyone is jumping on the joystick band wagon, but when you look at the physics and the mechanics, with a v-drive boat there is no beam thrust to the power and all sideways movement has to be done with thrusters. Every time the boat goes in gear, you must reverse that thrust to stop the momentum. To hold a boat in position or move it into a slip just think how many times the poor little v-drive is going to shift into and out of gear. This a piece of gee-whiz that I'm passing on...............particularly since it costs a fair % of the boat's value just to be able to dock with a joy stick.

 

[CPT2012]

There are 3 other companies offering joystick solutions at the boat show, that I know of.

One is yachtcontroller.com, it's the same idea as Xenta but they also have a remote control unit (Xenta said they have one remote in beta version too). They claim to have a lot of installations like Xenta, and the cost is similar. They offered to show me the system with one customer that has it installed in a big Sundancer in Miami. I'm still thinking about it.

ZF Marine also has a joystick solution, and Cummins has also introduced its system which is installed in the new 510 Fly that is in the Marinemax tent.

 

[NorCal Boater]

I'm not against new technology but why don't people just learn how to maneuver their boats the old fashioned way....with learned skills.

 

[kaz911]

I'm not against new technology but why don't people just learn how to maneuver their boats the old fashioned way....with learned skills.

So you want to have your ABS brakes and stability management taken off your car too? Or take the rev limiter of your engine? They all belong in the same category called "progress" and "innovation" . Just ask an emergency worker in a cold part of your country how many less accidents there are now in icing conditions due to stability management. The drop where I'm from is close to 80% less for cars with stability management. (Sorry for bashing *G* I do know you do not have anything against technology as you wrote)

Joystick = Safety for my wife. She can steer the boat fine - but in a serious situation where something happens to me - having the joystick gives piece of mind and easy docking even in VERY stressful situations. So I would call Joystick a safety feature.

And as my "very old fashioned surveyor" said before testing my boat... "Axius is just a toy"... After testing the boat he then said.. "I'm now an Axius convert... That thing just works wonders."

But I do think $17.000 is to much for a 3rd party IHMO - as I think you can add Axius to DTS boats if you can get someone to help you make a boat profile for about $22k

 

[WDCboater]

I'm not against new technology but why don't people just learn how to maneuver their boats the old fashioned way....with learned skills.

I already know how to drive my v-drive boat the old fashioned way.
But if you look at what's new for 2014, most of the boats I've seen at the show have joysticks.

 

[WDCboater]

So you want to have your ABS brakes and stability management taken off your car too? Or take the rev limiter of your engine? They all belong in the same category called "progress" and "innovation" . Just ask an emergency worker in a cold part of your country how many less accidents there are now in icing conditions due to stability management. The drop where I'm from is close to 80% less for cars with stability management. (Sorry for bashing *G* I do know you do not have anything against technology as you wrote)

Joystick = Safety for my wife. She can steer the boat fine - but in a serious situation where something happens to me - having the joystick gives piece of mind and easy docking even in VERY stressful situations. So I would call Joystick a safety feature.

And as my "very old fashioned surveyor" said before testing my boat... "Axius is just a toy"... After testing the boat he then said.. "I'm now an Axius convert... That thing just works wonders."

But I do think $17.000 is to much for a 3rd party IHMO - as I think you can add Axius to DTS boats if you can get someone to help you make a boat profile for about $22k

I asked Mercury, and Axius cannot be put on a boat that doesn't have Axius engines. The computer components aren't there. This is what they tell me. I have a DTS boat.

Yes, SeaRay is putting joysticks on V-drive boats. This is interesting technology and far less expensive than Zeus and Axius. Plus, you get the reduced maintenance issues of V-drives.

Xenta is all computer/software based. There's no replacing any boat systems or hardware. Some of the other systems I saw at the show required some hardware changes.

There are new boats, Azimut is a prime example, shipping their new boats from the factory with Xenta. I played with the simulator at the Xenta booth and it shows you how the boat is controlled. It is designed to not over use your thruster(s).

I don't necessarily think it's worth 17k, but it is an interesting concept.

 

[fwebster]

I asked Mercury, and Axius cannot be put on a boat that doesn't have Axius engines. The computer components aren't there. This is what they tell me. I have a DTS boat.

Yes, SeaRay is putting joysticks on V-drive boats. This is interesting technology and far less expensive than Zeus and Axius. Plus, you get the reduced maintenance issues of V-drives.

Xenta is all computer/software based. There's no replacing any boat systems or hardware. Some of the other systems I saw at the show required some hardware changes.

There are new boats, Azimut is a prime example, shipping their new boats from the factory with Xenta. I played with the simulator at the Xenta booth and it shows you how the boat is controlled. It is designed to not over use your thruster(s).

I don't necessarily think it's worth 17k, but it is an interesting concept.

Re-read post #2. The problem is not over taxing a thruster.....its parts are just a switch, a relay and a motor. The problem will be the number of gear changes the software requires the v-drives to make. I was on a ZF version of this system at a Sea Ray event last year and just backing into a slip from a 30˚ angle using the joystick reguired over 50 gear changes...I quit counting at 50. Yes, they offer it, but nobody who runs these boats regularly recommends it. Just because something can be done with computers/software doesn't necessarily make it a sound design when extended to existing technology. BTW, replacing transmissions on a 340DA are about $7500 ea.

 

[WDCboater]

Re-read post #2. The problem is not over taxing a thruster.....its parts are just a switch, a relay and a motor. The problem will be the number of gear changes the software requires the v-drives to make. I was on a ZF version of this system at a Sea Ray event last year and just backing into a slip from a 30˚ angle using the joystick reguired over 50 gear changes...I quit counting at 50. Yes, they offer it, but nobody who runs these boats regularly recommends it. Just because something can be done with computers/software doesn't necessarily make it a sound design when extended to existing technology. BTW, replacing transmissions on a 340DA are about $7500 ea.

I wasn't implying you said it would over work the thruster. Have you ever been on an Axius boat and seen how that system tasks the stern drives when using skyhook in a fast current?

If the technology and the engines couldn't handle it I wouldn't believe multiple manufacturers would install it in new boats. Volvo and Mercury are both offering this feature on 2014 models.

When I was using the Xenta simulator it showed you what each throttle and thruster were doing. I didn't see it over working any system to come to a halt. Nothing more that I would be doing manually. The physics are the same if you're doing it by hand or using a joystick. The only difference is the joystick uses the computer to make all of the calculations.

 

[CPT2012]

With the yacht controller you still drive using the engine and thrusters controls, but with the remote control unit you can move around the vessel. I find this useful especially for the big DAs and DBs. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-Q944pJgo

 

[keokie]

Cool video. I did not watch all of it. But I had a few thoughts... The thing looks wireless. What about interference. My encrypted garage door opener opens and closes on its own occasionally (okay, admittedly about 5 times in 7 years). How might this system act with interference? What is you drop it in the water? Or worse what if you if you fall in while operating it away from the helm? Maybe this is old fashion thinking, but I like having someone at the helm with a direct connection to the throttles and transmissions.

And I was on an IPS boat recently for a demo. Like Frank says, the number of gear changes was truly astonishing. It is very hard to imagine that won't have a negative impact on the transmissions.

I support most technological advances, but some of this has drawbacks. Oh, and that IPS boat has electronic shift controls... It is a new boat with a problem of not always responding to the shifter. The techs are stumped. It only does it sometimes, but what an inconvenience.

I may own a joystick boat some day. But I am not willing to accept what I believe are the current tradeoffs.

 

[WDCboater]

Cool video. I did not watch all of it. But I had a few thoughts... The thing looks wireless. What about interference. My encrypted garage door opener opens and closes on its own occasionally (okay, admittedly about 5 times in 7 years). How might this system act with interference? What is you drop it in the water? Or worse what if you if you fall in while operating it away from the helm? Maybe this is old fashion thinking, but I like having someone at the helm with a direct connection to the throttles and transmissions.

And I was on an IPS boat recently for a demo. Like Frank says, the number of gear changes was truly astonishing. It is very hard to imagine that won't have a negative impact on the transmissions.

I support most technological advances, but some of this has drawbacks. Oh, and that IPS boat has electronic shift controls... It is a new boat with a problem of not always responding to the shifter. The techs are stumped. It only does it sometimes, but what an inconvenience.

I may own a joystick boat some day. But I am not willing to accept what I believe are the current tradeoffs.

I can't speak for the system used in the MarineMax demo, but I asked the Xenta guys about system failure. Their system is hard wired, but if for any reason it fails, your normal controls take over. The system doesn't bypass your current controls, just augments them. In a pinch you regain normal control of the vessel.

Love be it or hate it, boat manufacturers are putting them on their boats. Expect to see more of them in the new SeaRays.

 

[NorCal Boater]

C'mon....I don't think you can put ABS on the same level as joystick handling of a boat. One is safety and the other is convenience. Docking and maneuvering a boat in close quarters is one of the major pains for a lot of boater so the boat manufacturers decided to come up with something to allow anyone to dock a boat rather than have them not buy a boat at all. The wife handling the boat card doesn't play with me. What if you have a heart attack offshore and as you fall you take out all of the electronics for the joystick controls. Now she is really toast. I would suggest getting her into a Skipper Saver course with the USPS.

I have a 52' boat with twin engines and no bow thruster. To get into my slip I have to back the boat about 80' and then make a 45 degree turn into the slip while still backing. If I can't do that regularly I have no business owning the thing. I pride myself in being able to put that boat anywhere. But I practice my handling skills every time out. I don't need thrusters or a joystick. If I bought a boat with those feature would I use them....hell yes but, I would make sure I could do it without. And my wife handles our boat almost as well as I do.

Do you ever practice close quarter handling of your boat with one engine? You should.

As for technology I have a 2-year-old, networked navigation system with radar, GPS, Auto Pilot, AIS, electronic charts, etc. But I also have paper charts, dividers and a parallel rule and know how to use them.

The problem here is not the technology but rather people relying on GPS, joysticks, thrusters, etc. without knowing what to do if that stuff malfunctions.

Just my opinion.

Shawn

 

[MonacoMike]

I'm not against new technology but why don't people just learn how to maneuver their boats the old fashioned way....with learned skills.

Docking and maneuvering a boat in close quarters is one of the major pains for a lot of boater so the boat manufacturers decided to come up with something to allow anyone to dock a boat rather than have them not buy a boat at all.

Shawn, Great answer to your own question, put another way, "to sell boats" to the same people that can afford expensive boats but need a calculator as they can't add in their head.

MM

 

[kaz911]

C'mon....I don't think you can put ABS on the same level as joystick handling of a boat. One is safety and the other is convenience. Docking and maneuvering a boat in close quarters is one of the major pains for a lot of boater so the boat manufacturers decided to come up with something to allow anyone to dock a boat rather than have them not buy a boat at all. The wife handling the boat card doesn't play with me. What if you have a heart attack offshore and as you fall you take out all of the electronics for the joystick controls. Now she is really toast. I would suggest getting her into a Skipper Saver course with the USPS.

I have a 52' boat with twin engines and no bow thruster. To get into my slip I have to back the boat about 80' and then make a 45 degree turn into the slip while still backing. If I can't do that regularly I have no business owning the thing. I pride myself in being able to put that boat anywhere. But I practice my handling skills every time out. I don't need thrusters or a joystick. If I bought a boat with those feature would I use them....hell yes but, I would make sure I could do it without. And my wife handles our boat almost as well as I do.

Do you ever practice close quarter handling of your boat with one engine? You should.

As for technology I have a 2-year-old, networked navigation system with radar, GPS, Auto Pilot, AIS, electronic charts, etc. But I also have paper charts, dividers and a parallel rule and know how to use them.

The problem here is not the technology but rather people relying on GPS, joysticks, thrusters, etc. without knowing what to do if that stuff malfunctions.

Just my opinion.

Shawn

Shawn - I have sailed ALL my life. My dad and two uncles was boat builders. I know how to sail on one engine or with a paddle. I'm used to docking big sail boats on sail only in crowded harbours And I practice 1 engine operation all the time. I can dock my boat using throttles only with zero steering - and with steering very offset. (had an Axius issues a few times related to crap Optima batteries)

But your attitude towards what is safety-gear is typical "old timer" (sorry) arguments. When ABS came out all the old timers said that is not needed on a car. People should learn how to drive in ice, rain and snow - because with the right training - you can safely drive in ice, rain and snow. ABS just ads weight and power consumption = more fuel consumption. So ABS should not be needed in cars. People should just learn how to drive.

And the attitude was there again - when I as the first in Scandinavia put a Garmin 430 in my little plane vs the Bendix King yellow display GPS that was in there. "That will never catch on. It will distract you from your instrument scan. It won't be safe." - again all the typical old timer resistance to innovation. Result was my little plane was the first GNS430 installation - AND the plane first certified for GPS approaches. Now you can't hardly find a plane without a colour chartplotter in it of some sort.

"Old-timers" will always say they have nothing against new technology - but then argue against the "new features" - and call them distractions, not needed - or even call them dangerous. The end result is - after a few (sometimes many) years - even the old timers "upgrade" to the new features and all resistance forgotten. And they can never remember how much they initially was against the new features once they have them.....

Axius and the other Joystick systems are progress. They will help sell boats - and they will help new boat owners NOT to bash old boat owners boats so much. Is that not a benefit? Will it not help bring down insurance claims? And if that helps get more boats in the water - we ALL benefit. If the choice was between a $9000 bow thruster - or a $20.000 Joystick system - in my book there is absolutely no discussion on what I would get.

And having Joystick not only means having Joystick - it also means having a full functional auto pilot interface with chart plotter directed steering - without having to buy extra pumps or interfaces. It is all there - so yet another saving.

But then again - I was lucky and got my boat with Axius for less than similar boats sold for without Axius for at the time. So it was not planned that I got Axius - but since I got it - I use it - and I love it. But in the future - I would not buy a pod or stern drive boat without Axius or similar.

And for gear box abuse? My drives was just serviced and oil samples came back with normal amount of metal parts in it. No excessive shavings which would indicate gear box abuse - all well within normal range.

And for my wife - it is peace of mind - as we all act differently in emergencies - it is about what you can do to reduce stress in the moment. And you do not know how you will react in a true emergency before you have tried it. But that is a few other stories :grin:

 

[Buckroe]

I installed the Xenta on my 44 Sedan Bridge this past year and I could not be happier with it. I had been away from boating for 10 years, and I moved up to a bigger boat. It gives me peace of mind when docking, or manuevering in tight quarters. I boat to relax, and this thing added a stress reducing calm to boat handling. It is pricey, worth it to me, but pricey.
If anyone in Miami would like to take a look at it, I would be happy to show you.