Any Ideas?

sejensen737

Active Member
Apr 3, 2010
133
Sarnia
Boat Info
2006 340
Engines
8.1 Mercs
2006 340 300hrs port engine

Last year it became hard to start. It would idle rough and stop. Required restart 3 or 4 times until it would continue to idle. Any application of throttle would cause it to stop running. If it would continue to idle rough and warm up it would accept throttle inputs and accelerate and run fine. Once at this point leaving the dock and going out in the lake resulted in flawless performance. Shutting down at anchor in the lake with a restart a few hours later the engine starts and idles normally.
Checked IAC filter. Tested IAC valve. Filter a little dirty and IAC valve checked OK. Replaced filter and IAC valve anyway. No improvement.
Launched boat a few weeks ago. Replaced fuel filters in Cool fuel Module before launch. Both were a little dirty but not excessivley so. None of the "loose paint" problem evident. Same symptoms on first start up of the year. Took it for a run and it ran well. Back to dock and tried to start a few days later. Ran for 10 seconds first attempt. Ran for 5 seconds second attempt. Would not start after that and exhibited what I can only describe as "starter kickback" on next attempt. Decided not to push further until examination. Was afraid of possible hydrolock. Pulled all plugs , which by the way only have about 30 hours on them. None were wet with water. No water in oil. Removed left exhaust manifold to inspect. Gasket was not compromised. No sign of internal water damage but the outer manifold was quite rusty , which is why I removed that one rather than the easier right side. Pressure tested it and it appeared not to leak. Borescoped exhaust ports and all 8 cylinders and no abnormalities noted. Turned engine over with plugs out and manifold off and no abnormalities noted.
So ...a ton of work and still no obvious faults. I'm thinking now , possibly bad injectors?
Any ideas?
 
Sounds electrical to me, try swapping all the relays on top of the engine with the other engine, Also is it getting spark when it doesn't start?, maybe bad coil or cap and rotor? Also check the pcm connections, I doubt is is injectors as all of them would not go bad at once, it would still start and the bad one would make it skip, also check the fuel pressure
 
Thanks garybly

Distributorless ignition. It's getting spark.
The cool fuel module is definatley running but it is possible it is not putting out required pressure. I will have to test...
 
Ah, I have a 2005 320 sundancer, still has distributers, I had a problem that one of the wires to the pcm was broken making contact sometimes, took me a while to figure it out. I am a retired Auto tech of 42 years. I know how frustrating some problems can be :(
 
Thanks garybly

Distributorless ignition. It's getting spark.
The cool fuel module is definatley running but it is possible it is not putting out required pressure. I will have to test...

You noted above "no loose paint problems evident" you cant tell by accessing the filter housing - its the pump cover that flakes and that is AFTER the filters - yes, the best way is to verify fuel pressure cranking and running - if you remove the regulator on the module you can often see the issue as it blocks the regulator
 
Ah, I have a 2005 320 sundancer, still has distributers, I had a problem that one of the wires to the pcm was broken making contact sometimes, took me a while to figure it out. I am a retired Auto tech of 42 years. I know how frustrating some problems can be :(
Those are not distributors - they function only as switches.
 
Those are not distributors - they function only as switches.
It is a distributer, it sends spark to each cylinder, Non distributer engines have a coil pack on each cylinder, you are so wrong
 
Update...removed fuel regulator. No sign of contamination. No sign of fuel in vacuum line. Switched regulator from starboard engine just in case. Reassembld port manifold , replaced temperature sender , replaced a plug with cracked insulator.
Moment of truth...started and idled well for 30 seconds , I'm thinking halleluah , then it falters ,picks up for 10 seconds and dies. Restarts result in running for a few seconds and dying. Started starboard engine and it runs fine with switched fuel regulator.
Frustrating. I'm getting ready to call in the pro's but if I do it will be the first time I've had to since owning the boat...
 
I would test fuel pressure. Sounds like maybe one of your fuel pumps is going bad, has a poor connection or clogged jets. Had similar issue and diagnosed mine by using starting fluid as recommended by a mechanic. (Although I know this is controversial) As we got the motor running and it was idling very rough, he sprayed the starting fluid down the throat of the air intake and she smoothed right out. Sent all of my injectors (both motors) away and had them cleaned. Came back with over half of them 50% or greater compromised. Some were as low as 20%. Got them all back, re installed and ran better than ever. No problems since.
 
I have a similar problem to this. Port motor will stall at idle when cold then runs flawlessly. Don’t know what it is I tried iac valve also and I’ve had both motors redone already after those paint in fuel issues. I’m at a loss so please keep me posted
 
Will do. I've run out of ideas for now and the earliest I could book a mechanic for a diagnostic is 2 weeks from now.

I have spent hour upon hour searching the internet and there are about a half a dozen threads , some quite detailed and lengthy describing attempts to track down this problem. Every one of them goes dead without a solution stated.

Bad form...
 
Will do. I've run out of ideas for now and the earliest I could book a mechanic for a diagnostic is 2 weeks from now.

I have spent hour upon hour searching the internet and there are about a half a dozen threads , some quite detailed and lengthy describing attempts to track down this problem. Every one of them goes dead without a solution stated.

Bad form...
Bummer I know,
 
This a bit radical. But would certainly be a very helpful diagnostic. Swap fuel modules and see if the problems follows. Do the affected side first and make sure you have good raw water flow thru it. Also make sure you have good raw water flow out of the fuel module raw water supply hose.
I advise to consider this as my brother in law had a Chapparel and he would start her up and take off down the bay and about 15 to 20 min after starting and running at cruise speed, his motor would just shut down and not re start. Only to come back to it a few hours later and it would start right up. His mechanic changed the fuel pump, pumped the fuel tanks out and put fresh new fuel, then actually pulled the tank. [ yes had the cut out the floor ]. Changed the injectors and fuel lines. After all this, and 3900.00 later, problem still there. Then a bumped into a friend who worked at a marina for a few years. Talked to him about it and he said to check the fuel coolers. His motors had in line coolers. I pulled it off and it was totally blocked with mud, shell pieces, etc. Cleaned it out, re installed and problem resolved. Did the other motor as well.
 
I also had this problem. I had written a thread about it a few years ago and was chasing this gremlin around for 4 seasons. Stbd motor rpms were all over the place. Sometimes it would purr like a kitten and hold steady and other times the rpms would vary up and down as much as 350 to 450 rpms. It wasn't until I had my recent electronics upgrade done that the problem was found. As the extremely competent Merc Mechanic was under the dash taking out the old SC5000 and other components he found that my cam bus cable servicing the stbd motor had a rather disturbing issue. (See attached pic). It had apparently been damaged, (cut, nicked, etc) and an attempt was made to repair it with butt splices. I believe I know when this happened as I had an autopilot added after I purchased the boat. It ran flawlessly at survey and sea trial. Only did the gremlin come out after the AP was installed and I was on my way to home port, a 3 hour run. If you have a bad cable, or connection, it cold certainly be causing your problem. The after warm up it runs fines it what gets me though. The cables are not expensive, so I really don't understand why whoever damaged it didn't fess up and replace it. New cable and gremlin gone. Just throwing out possibilities as I know the electronics on our engines are quite voltage sensitive. With the cable replacement - my gremlin is gone.
Some other things to consider looking at . . . . Are you spitting out any unburned fuel at the dock while starting?
How are your batteries for that motor? I was once advised that our motors run on battery voltage until I think it is up around 1200 rpms and then they draw primarily from the alternator. If you have a bad cell other battery issue it could be a possibility. I learned this on my 7.4 I had in my previous boat. A bit of a pain, but maybe swap battery banks and see issue follows?
Not saying any of these things are what is causing your gremlin, but I am just thinking out loud trying to give you some thoughts to ponder to help you figure it out. I will also check with my very competent Merc guy today and get his thoughts. Believe me, I feel your pain. Been there.

04.18.2021 Stbd Data Cable.jpg
 
Yes it is. My current guy is top notch. I did what I consider a pretty big upgrade and troubleshooting project this past Spring. The guy that did it works for a local boatyard and is top notch. Of all the stuff he did, and it was a bunch, everything is spot on. He troubleshoot my list and diagnosed and fixed all of them. Over 44 years of boat ownership, I cannot say I have ever been so impressed having marine work done. He even fixed stuff that was done by other mechanics that was not ABYC compliant, most of it at no extra charge cause he said, "it just wasn't right".
 

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