Air Conditioning Issues

Robski97 said:
Filter would not cause his issue.

Rob
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Yes, but it does provide cause for some comic relief.


I installed a Marine Air system in 1988 in my previous boat the year after I bought her. I remember that after working all day to get the unit in place, ducted, and plumbed that when I went to turn it on at the end of the day, it didn't work. It kept throwing the breaker at compressor start. Metering the draw pinned my meter.

Marine Air had a lot of problems with the rotary compressors that they were using during that era. If changing the start cap doesn't solve the problem, then you might need a compressor.

Best regards,
Frank C
 
fc3 said:
Yes, but it does provide cause for some comic relief.


I installed a Marine Air system in 1988 in my previous boat the year after I bought her. I remember that after working all day to get the unit in place, ducted, and plumbed that when I went to turn it on at the end of the day, it didn't work. It kept throwing the breaker at compressor start. Metering the draw pinned my meter.

Marine Air had a lot of problems with the rotary compressors that they were using during that era. If changing the start cap doesn't solve the problem, then you might need a compressor.

Best regards,
Frank C
Click to expand...

Frank,

i agree...if I could figure out how to get the start cap out W/O tearing the unit apart I'll go to Marine Air in Pompano and get ne or match it up with something at Grainger.:huh: It's buried down at the bottom of the electrical box in the unit and you have to disconnect every thing to get to it unless there is some trick that I don't know about.
 
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A/C guy stepping up here!

First let me clarify something. The little round doohickey on top of the compressor is called a Klixon overload. It is a simple bimetallic switch that will open on too high a temperature and ALSO too high a current load such as you get when a compressor fails to start. Repeated attempts to start will cause a lot of heat and melt the plastic cover although if the unit is 20 years old that is a lot of starting over the years.
You say the compressor runs for about 10 seconds and then trips, then you said it tries to start and then trips. If it starts and runs does it sound normal? Or does it give a little shiver for a couple of seconds and then trip the breaker? Maybe it just buzzes.

If it gives a little shiver before tripping the breaker then most likely it is the run capacitor that is bad. If it just buzzes it could be the hard start capacitor or a locked up compressor. It could also be burned or corroded wires or connectors at the compressor or at the capacitors. Replacing the capacitors is the best way to proceed if you have doubts as it is cheap.

Why it is hard to get to surprises me as I usually found that marine air units of that vintage (if my memory serves me) had all the electrical components attached to the cover of the electrical box so you took the cover off and there they were. Some of the units had the capacitors in the logic control box, maybe that is what you have. Marine Air used to change their design about every two years around that time but would keep the same model number so you never knew which version you had without eyeballing it.

Hope this helps,

Brian
boatacguy.com
 
boatacguy said:
A/C guy stepping up here!

First let me clarify something. The little round doohickey on top of the compressor is called a Klixon overload. It is a simple bimetallic switch that will open on too high a temperature and ALSO too high a current load such as you get when a compressor fails to start. Repeated attempts to start will cause a lot of heat and melt the plastic cover although if the unit is 20 years old that is a lot of starting over the years.
You say the compressor runs for about 10 seconds and then trips, then you said it tries to start and then trips. If it starts and runs does it sound normal? Or does it give a little shiver for a couple of seconds and then trip the breaker? Maybe it just buzzes.

If it gives a little shiver before tripping the breaker then most likely it is the run capacitor that is bad. If it just buzzes it could be the hard start capacitor or a locked up compressor. It could also be burned or corroded wires or connectors at the compressor or at the capacitors. Replacing the capacitors is the best way to proceed if you have doubts as it is cheap.

Why it is hard to get to surprises me as I usually found that marine air units of that vintage (if my memory serves me) had all the electrical components attached to the cover of the electrical box so you took the cover off and there they were. Some of the units had the capacitors in the logic control box, maybe that is what you have. Marine Air used to change their design about every two years around that time but would keep the same model number so you never knew which version you had without eyeballing it.

Hope this helps,

Brian
boatacguy.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. All of the connections are on top of the electrical box and they all look ok. The run capacitor (the size of a small beer can) is down at the bottom of the box and to get to it I will have to disconnect all of the wires(12) from the terminal block and take the top off of the box to get to it. If that's what I have to do then ok...I was hoping for easier access. I guess my central unit at home has me spoiled. I think I'll take a picture of this thing so we are all on the same page. Mine is OEM so I'm guessing it's a rotary compressor model. Looking down at the top of this unit the elec box is located to the right of the compressor. It is a rectangular box with it's orientation vertical. I have a retrofited Passport II t-stat but can't get codes from it.

If you know wher I could look at a repair manual on this unit on line it would help a bunch. It's a 16,000 BTU Marine Air, 1989 model. Here is a pic of the unit.

picture.php
 
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It sounds like you have the exact problem I do with my Salon AC unit. I have been in touch with marine air and they gave me some directions to test it out but I haven't really had time to check it out yet.

I have the same unit just about but a little newer and more BTU's. I am really curious to hear what you find, I will do the same!
 
Carver370 said:
It sounds like you have the exact problem I do with my Salon AC unit. I have been in touch with marine air and they gave me some directions to test it out but I haven't really had time to check it out yet.

I have the same unit just about but a little newer and more BTU's. I am really curious to hear what you find, I will do the same!
Click to expand...

Brian "boatacguy" called me and gave me some tips. I'm going to the boat tomorrow and pull the run capacitor out as well as the start capacitor. I'll take them to Grainger and get replacements. Hopefully the Sea Ray A/C Gods are smiling on me.:thumbsup:Stay tuned....
 
100_0701.jpg


Looks about right. 16.5K BTU rev cycle (you can see the crummy three knobber!). GOOD LUCK and take pix as you go!
 
If you can't get the caps out, you might be able to settle for getting the attaching wires out and connecting them to the new caps that just are lying there. If it works, then you have to finish the report. If it doesn't work, no point in digging out those parts.

Best regards,
Frank
 
fc3 said:
If you can't get the caps out, you might be able to settle for getting the attaching wires out and connecting them to the new caps that just are lying there. If it works, then you have to finish the report. If it doesn't work, no point in digging out those parts.

Best regards,
Frank
Click to expand...
Good Idea.
 
Yours is at least accessible. If mine had to come out I'm thinking one of these...
tylertool_2050_14729022


or one of these...

craftsman%20chainsaw%2035020.jpg
 
Re: Air Conditioning Issues Update

Update...I pulled the run capacitor, checked it and it was bad. The start capacitor was ok. Went to Grangers and got a run capacitor for $12.52. Put it in and no change. Brian "boatacguy" sys it might be a bad compressor but before I give up he suggested adding an additional start capacitor to what I already have...just might start the compressor. For $15~$20 I'll try it...stay tuned.
 
Update..:smt089 compressor/unit time:smt013 right when the weather is getting hot and more than half of my clients are 90 days+ on my receivables. I found a used "good" compressor but now I am wondering maybe I should go for a whole new unit.$$$:huh:
 
How much is the used compressor? Do you have faith that the remaining guts of the old unit will last after you put in the replacement compressor? I guess a new unit (Cruisair) would be in the neighborhood of $2600. Would you consider the Mermaid Air unit that Defender sells (comes with a digital pad)? No one had any replies to my question about how these other manufacturer's products stack up against Cruisair.

The PO of my boat had replaced the original forward unit with a new 7000BTU Cruisair and a SMX II. The old 3 knob is still there, buried inside the cedar locker.
 
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I used to do that for a living and I can tell you that looks like one tough compressor to change. A lot of brazed connections with very little room to manipulte piping. Way too tough to risk on a used compressor. Don't forget, an electrical compressor failure invariably means a contaminated system. Acid is produced when compressor windings burn and the oil becomes toxic to any new components. Don't remove the oil and the new compressor will have a very short life.
Best to bite the bullet and go with a new sealed system.
 
John:

I have a 9K unit forward, not a 12K. Either SR made a change, or one of us has a replaced unit. In any case, I find the 9K is more than adequate for cooling the two staterooms. Mine are straight cooling (no reverse cycle) because heat isn't a concern.

I have a Mermaid unit in my Chris-Craft and I've had no problems with it. The 9K unit from Mermaid sells for a little over $1,300. You can probably find some way to use the existing control wiring for the new programmable digital t-stat as well. It is a tad tight in there but it looks like it would be a relatively easy swap-out.
 
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