Advise needed when anchoring in salt water

[floriduramax1]

I purchased a stainless steel hinge plow Delta style anchor and have used it once in a cove in the ICW. I set anchor about 50 yards from a SR 58 bridge boat and was nose in to the wind just like him. Tide was going out. I was very nervous as we have only spent the night on the hook 2 times so I kept getting up through the night to check position. Every thing seemed fine so I finally fell asleep. at sunrise I got up and tide was coming in and we turned 180 degrees and I noticed I was getting within 25 yards or so from the other boat. By the time we showered and ate we were getting too close to the 58. I pulled up and left. This is a narrow cove and a popular spot and no one else seemed to have trouble. The depth was approx 12-14 feet. I have 15' of chain and I had alot of rode out.

I noticed on the 58, he had a rope from each side front cleat tied to the anchor line near the water line like some sort of harness:huh:

Is the hinge plow effective with tide and wind change 180 degrees? Also, we were swinging slowly side to side more than any other boat there. Is there ever use for a stern anchor? Sorry if this has been covered, I have searched and not really found anything that answered my questions. Thanks in advance!

 

[Skeetobite]

The 58 was using a bridle to take the strain off his windlass. It's not a good idead to let the windlass carry the load at anchor for obvious reasons. When you are selecting a spot to drop the hook in a tight anchorage, take a look at the scope and length of the boats closest to you. This should give you a decent idea about their swing. Also, note the types of boats. Larger and deeper draft boats will swing at a rate different from your own.

It sounds like you have good ground tackle, but perhaps needed more scope if you were dragging the anchor. The rising tide will shorten your scope. Scope is the amount of anchor rode you put in the water in relation to the depth. So anchoring in 10' of water would result in 50' of rode for 5 to 1. We anchor out 100% of the time we're out. In a sandy to muddy bottom and with no real winds, waves or currents expected, we use 5 to 1 and make sure we have good holding before turning off the engines and leaving the helm. If we're expecting a storm (every afternoon in Florida), I'll set it at 10 to 1. After the storm passes I choke it down to 5 to 1 to reduce my swing. For some reason early on I practiced setting the hook perfectly down wind so I looked cool. A trick I learned was to allow the bow to fall off the wind a bit when anchoring so when she snapped back straight, I knew I had a good set.

I switched from a Danforth that would drag regularly to a QuickSet Delta that is slightly over sized for my boat. Near instant set and haven't dragged since. In fact, we rode out a 3 day gale on the hook and she didn't budge. I sleep like a baby on the hook unless there's traffic around us.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[floriduramax1]

The 58 was using a bridle to take the strain off his windlass. It's not a good idead to let the windlass carry the load at anchor for obvious reasons. When you are selecting a spot to drop the hook in a tight anchorage, take a look at the scope and length of the boats closest to you. This should give you a decent idea about their swing. Also, note the types of boats. Larger and deeper draft boats will swing at a rate different from your own.

It sounds like you have good ground tackle, but perhaps needed more scope if you were dragging the anchor. The rising tide will shorten your scope. Scope is the amount of anchor rode you put in the water in relation to the depth. So anchoring in 10' of water would result in 50' of rode for 5 to 1. We anchor out 100% of the time we're out. In a sandy to muddy bottom and with no real winds, waves or currents expected, we use 5 to 1 and make sure we have good holding before turning off the engines and leaving the helm. If we're expecting a storm (every afternoon in Florida), I'll set it at 10 to 1. After the storm passes I choke it down to 5 to 1 to reduce my swing. For some reason early on I practiced setting the hook perfectly down wind so I looked cool. A trick I learned was to allow the bow to fall off the wind a bit when anchoring so when she snapped back straight, I knew I had a good set.

I switched from a Danforth that would drag regularly to a QuickSet Delta that is slightly over sized for my boat. Near instant set and haven't dragged since. In fact, we rode out a 3 day gale on the hook and she didn't budge. I sleep like a baby on the hook unless there's traffic around us.

Hope that's helpful.

I thought I had enough out but maybe not. Now I need to figure out how to tell how much is actually out. I will definitely do the bow off the wind trick that sounds like it would work and you would for sure know when it sets! I guess the next thing to figure out is with that much rode out, how close to other boats do you get in tight anchorages and be safe and not make the other guy uncomfortable? We don't have a lot of real estate in these coves by disappearing island at Ponce Inlet and many boats anchor there.

Thanks for the quick reply and good advise!

 

[trit21]

Not sure if you were in Rock House Creek or another area but the bottom is pretty much all the same here, sand.

The 58 had what is called a bridle, he has an all chain rode not rope and to reduce the strain and sudden pull since chain has no stretch he used the bridle. Attaches to the chain rode and then also to the 2 side cleats. It also will reduce the swing kind of like a bahamian anchor set up. But you should be fine with chain/rope rode even though you swing it should be fine as long as you originally set up far enough away in ALL directions to accommodate the 180 swing. In Rock House Creek, during slack tide (which is about 1-2 hrs after low and high tide) you will just kind of swing arbitrarily until the current starts moving again, happens to everyone and again as long as you set up far enough away at the start you should be good.

You said you had a lot of scope out, how much is alot? 20', 30' 60'? If you are in 14' of water, your bow is about 5' off the water so effective depth is 19', make is easy 20'. I used a 5:1 scope or 7:1 during summer time because of heavy wind potential. So, if you use 5:1 you needed to have 100' of anchor rode out which includes your chain. If you wanted to use 7:1, you would need 140' of rode out. Chain will help you stay located as well since the chain will act as a weight on the bottom and keep you more stable and allow the anchor to dig in once you turn the 180 degrees.

For example, this weekend in Rock House Creek we were in 6' of water, my bow is 6' from waterline, 12' total. I had out 60' of rode, chain plus rope. We stayed the entire weekend with not problems at all. Others tried to anchor out for the day and they drug the anchor on 2 different occasions and I could tell from the angle of the chain they only had about 15' out, it just will not hold with so little rode out.

Key to good anchoring, scope scope scope. You could probably use more chain but I have anchored with no chain and it works so yours WILL work, just more scope to set initially and you can always reel some in if you want. Know your bottom, and here it is mostly sand so get a good anchor that works in sand. Plows do work in sand but I have found that my Fortress anchor hold real well in sand around here. We have had three 40' boats on my anchor overnight with not problems at all as well. Just get ready for the nice shiny anchor to get scratched up as it digs through the sand on the bottom.

Anything else, just let us know.

 

[trit21]

Be careful in Rock House Creek with wind and current. During high current times, current is the dominate factor against wind. During slack times, wind is the dominate factor. Always look at the other boats and anchor the same way. You may or may not be able to use the wind and sometimes the anchor will be pointed sideways to your boat as the current and wind fight each other. Rock House Creek anchoring is sometimes difficult to determine the best place due to high current at times. Very narrow as you said and lots of current right at the inlet.

 

[floriduramax1]

Not sure if you were in Rock House Creek or another area but the bottom is pretty much all the same here, sand.

The 58 had what is called a bridle, he has an all chain rode not rope and to reduce the strain and sudden pull since chain has no stretch he used the bridle. Attaches to the chain rode and then also to the 2 side cleats. It also will reduce the swing kind of like a bahamian anchor set up. But you should be fine with chain/rope rode even though you swing it should be fine as long as you originally set up far enough away in ALL directions to accommodate the 180 swing. In Rock House Creek, during slack tide (which is about 1-2 hrs after low and high tide) you will just kind of swing arbitrarily until the current starts moving again, happens to everyone and again as long as you set up far enough away at the start you should be good.

You said you had a lot of scope out, how much is alot? 20', 30' 60'? If you are in 14' of water, your bow is about 5' off the water so effective depth is 19', make is easy 20'. I used a 5:1 scope or 7:1 during summer time because of heavy wind potential. So, if you use 5:1 you needed to have 100' of anchor rode out which includes your chain. If you wanted to use 7:1, you would need 140' of rode out. Chain will help you stay located as well since the chain will act as a weight on the bottom and keep you more stable and allow the anchor to dig in once you turn the 180 degrees.

For example, this weekend in Rock House Creek we were in 6' of water, my bow is 6' from waterline, 12' total. I had out 60' of rode, chain plus rope. We stayed the entire weekend with not problems at all. Others tried to anchor out for the day and they drug the anchor on 2 different occasions and I could tell from the angle of the chain they only had about 15' out, it just will not hold with so little rode out.

Key to good anchoring, scope scope scope. You could probably use more chain but I have anchored with no chain and it works so yours WILL work, just more scope to set initially and you can always reel some in if you want. Know your bottom, and here it is mostly sand so get a good anchor that works in sand. Plows do work in sand but I have found that my Fortress anchor hold real well in sand around here. We have had three 40' boats on my anchor overnight with not problems at all as well. Just get ready for the nice shiny anchor to get scratched up as it digs through the sand on the bottom.

Anything else, just let us know.

As I said in the previous post, my next move is to figure out how to tell exactly how much I had out. I really dont know how to tell exactly.

10-4 on the scratching! I polished it out Sunday and ready for some more action this weekend!

How does the hinge plow turn the 180 degrees and hold and not "flop" over? I set it in the sand in my yard and simulate turning 180 and it just flops over and has to start the digging again. It doesn't seem as effective as the standard Delta I took off. But it's "pretty..er"...lol

Thanks for the reply

 

[ChuckW]

Mark your rode with color codes. I have an all chain rode and use these every 10' http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|32295|536112&id=535733
I keep a chart at the helm that reminds me of my color scheme...
1 Red 10'
1 Yellow 20'
1 Green 30'
1 Blue 40'
1 White 50'
2 Red 60'
2 Yellow 70'
2 Green 80'
2 Blue 90'

and so on.

For Rope rode, just use some nylon ribbon and feed it through the 3 strands and tie it off.

I always know exactly how much rode is out. :thumbsup:

 

[Skeetobite]

Available at marine stores. Thankfully, I have color coded anchor rode after the chain.

As far as how close to other boats... this will take practice. I've swung way too close to other boats and made the mistake of swinging over top another boats anchor. Imagine my surprise when the guy was leaving before sunrise and I see his bow pulpit looming out of the darkness about a foot away from my cockpit! We chatted for a minute and he left; on a 50' TolleyCraft. I hadn't paid attention to his scope, which was nearly straight out from his bow.

My advice would be to leave plenty of room, but not so much that it looks inviting to someone to try to use. Take your time. There are no points for style and you can pull the hook in and retry as many times as you like.

 

[Asureyez]

When establishing your plan to set the hook you must take in to account multiple factors.

How long you expect to be on the hook
The depth of the water
The height of your bow chock off the water surface
Tide direction in ebb and flow
The composition of the bottom
Windage
type and size of anchor chosen for a particular bottom type, say sand vs soft mud
The type of anchor rode you have
The type of swivel and length of chain lead from rope to stock

Failure to take proper consideration of any one of these issues can assure a skipper of a restless night.

Skippering requires the mastering the use of ground tackle and using it anchoring in many different circumstances, which is more complex that docking.

Skippers with all chain rode have different considerations than they would with rope to chain situations. But one common over riding first issue is understanding scope required to safely anchor YOUR vessel.

The tighter the situation in an anchorage and the length of time a skipper will be on the hook helps determine, the considerations must be given to required scope, swing and type of rode/chain consideration.


The 58, riding on a bridal would have hand an all chain rode. This set up serves to eliminate most shock loading of chain to boat, relieves stress on the windlass, and quiets noise from the chain scraping the bottom. A bridal will lessen "sailing" at anchor as well.

All rope rodes do not require bridals for these purposes, except to tame wild sailing issues. All rope rodes may require the use of a "Sentinel" to achieve good set and restful sleep. Sentinels can also help reduce swing arch.

The use of these devices is well covered in many publications, Chapman's & Bowditch the most notable.

 

[trit21]

As I said in the previous post, my next move is to figure out how to tell exactly how much I had out. I really dont know how to tell exactly.

10-4 on the scratching! I polished it out Sunday and ready for some more action this weekend!

How does the hinge plow turn the 180 degrees and hold and not "flop" over? I set it in the sand in my yard and simulate turning 180 and it just flops over and has to start the digging again. It doesn't seem as effective as the standard Delta I took off. But it's "pretty..er"...lol

Thanks for the reply

I think what happens is when the tide turns 180 that the anchor is slowly pulled digging into the sand/bottom as you are spun the 180. The tide doesn't switch instantly but rather over time and as your boat is spun it will dig and turn. But, if the anchor does break free it will dig back in if you have the correct scope out for the conditions and bottom where you are anchored. As Chad says, it does take practice and you can learn alot (at least I did) by watching some of the more experienced and knowledgeable captains in the area. You can tell who they are when you out there. Operations is smooth and no rush ever.

 

[Bucit]

I always use a rear anchor in tight quarters. Your boat should swing with the wind/tide but so should the other boats unless they have a rear anchor out.

 

[Nehalennia]

........ I have 15' of chain .........

I think you need a minimum of twice as much chain to keep your anchor on the bottom and rehold when you swing in the tidal change. We anchor in 40' of water typically. I have 50' of chain and wish I had more. I then will send out ~175' feet of rode (all I have) + the chain to stay put.

 

[wastinaweigh]

Floriduramax1 -

I can think of two things that may have been overlooked when you set your anchor. First, and most likely, since you have a chain and rope anchor rode, you should have used more scope than the 58 footer with the all chain rode. He was probably at 4:1 or 5:1 versus you at 7:1 or 8:1. This means that the radius of the 58' at anchor was smaller than the radius of your boat.

Suppose you are anchored behind the other boat in 10' of water. His swinging radius is going to be 40-50'. Yours will be 65-75'. When the tide shifts and you both swing 180 degrees, the 58' boat will shift roughly 100' (50 + 50). You boat will swing around your anchor also, but you will wind up about 150' from where you started (75 + 75), leaving you 50' closer to the other boat. All of this is due to the simple fact that he has a shorter anchor rode than you. Next time, just leave a little more room.

You did not say how you set your anchor. If you did not back down on it when you set it, it is possible that there was some slack in the chain that did not get stretched out until you swung around. I have 30' of chain, and it is not unusual for it to pile up on the bottom and hold the boat just by the weight of the chain and anchor. When I put it in reverse, I will go back 30' until all of the slack is out of the chain, then the anchor will dig in.

I have a Delta plow and it will usually re-set itself in 5 or 6 feet if the tide pulls it loose.

If you want to monitor this (for peace of mine), set a "man overboard" waypoint on your GPS when you lower you anchor. Your GPS will create a breadcrumb track as you swing around your anchor, and it is an easy way to confirm that it is holding.

 

[floriduramax1]

Floriduramax1 -

I can think of two things that may have been overlooked when you set your anchor. First, and most likely, since you have a chain and rope anchor rode, you should have used more scope than the 58 footer with the all chain rode. He was probably at 4:1 or 5:1 versus you at 7:1 or 8:1. This means that the radius of the 58' at anchor was smaller than the radius of your boat.

Suppose you are anchored behind the other boat in 10' of water. His swinging radius is going to be 40-50'. Yours will be 65-75'. When the tide shifts and you both swing 180 degrees, the 58' boat will shift roughly 100' (50 + 50). You boat will swing around your anchor also, but you will wind up about 150' from where you started (75 + 75), leaving you 50' closer to the other boat. All of this is due to the simple fact that he has a shorter anchor rode than you. Next time, just leave a little more room.

You did not say how you set your anchor. If you did not back down on it when you set it, it is possible that there was some slack in the chain that did not get stretched out until you swung around. I have 30' of chain, and it is not unusual for it to pile up on the bottom and hold the boat just by the weight of the chain and anchor. When I put it in reverse, I will go back 30' until all of the slack is out of the chain, then the anchor will dig in.

I have a Delta plow and it will usually re-set itself in 5 or 6 feet if the tide pulls it loose.

If you want to monitor this (for peace of mine), set a "man overboard" waypoint on your GPS when you lower you anchor. Your GPS will create a breadcrumb track as you swing around your anchor, and it is an easy way to confirm that it is holding.

With the wind and current in that cove there was no need to "back down"..lol It set good, but I think everyone is right and I just didn't have enough out. The anchor did drag. I didn't have a GPS on that trip, but I do now:grin: I need to mark my line so I can tell how much I have out.

Thanks for all the replies!

I was actually thinking of more chain even to increase the weight at the bow as I set real heavy in the stern when fully loaded with my big cooler and I haven't even tried with the dingy and motor yet! I may have to tie it on the bow for the Bimini trip and put the motor on the front bow rail...lol

 

[Gunn]

Also, we were swinging slowly side to side more than any other boat there.

I think it was Four Suns that wrote a great post on the physics of this swinging from side to side (sailing?) and how the bridle setup would solve it. I can't find the post though...!

edit: Found it! See here: http://clubsearay.com/showthread.ph...-fish-tailing-in-the-wind?p=284201#post284201 . And keep reading as there's discussion on anchoring a 280 also.

 

[MonacoMike]

I was very nervous as we have only spent the night on the hook 2 times so I kept getting up through the night to check position. !

Does your GPS have an anchor alarm? I love that feature. MM

 

[floriduramax1]

Does your GPS have an anchor alarm? I love that feature. MM

I'm not sure. It's a Garmin 740s. I really haven't had time to even look at it since installing. I don't even know if my thru hull transducer works yet...lol I hope to take her out this weekend to test. I'm trying to cram so much in so little time to make the June 22 Bimini trip while at the same time the "Snow Birds" are heading home and hitting us all at once!! Tonight I'm trying to figure out if it's worth taking this 9' Zodiac and motor and how to carry it!! Ahhhh I love it!!

 

[floriduramax1]

I think it was Four Suns that wrote a great post on the physics of this swinging from side to side (sailing?) and how the bridle setup would solve it. I can't find the post though...!

edit: Found it! See here: http://clubsearay.com/showthread.ph...-fish-tailing-in-the-wind?p=284201#post284201 . And keep reading as there's discussion on anchoring a 280 also.

Thanks Gunn! I read the whole thread and will try it. I just wonder how it works with the high speed current of the in or outbound tide and the wind in the opposite direction. I read and watched some videos saying to never use a stern anchor in these conditions. The first trip out, I threw out the stern anchor...boy was that hard the next morning to get it pulled back in!!

 

[MonacoMike]

I'm not sure. It's a Garmin 740s. I really haven't had time to even look at it since installing. I don't even know if my thru hull transducer works yet...lol I hope to take her out this weekend to test. I'm trying to cram so much in so little time to make the June 22 Bimini trip while at the same time the "Snow Birds" are heading home and hitting us all at once!! Tonight I'm trying to figure out if it's worth taking this 9' Zodiac and motor and how to carry it!! Ahhhh I love it!!

My 441s has it so I'm sure you do as well. It is not part of the transducer. My technique is to set it to allow a small amount of movement then each time it goes off set it a little farther out. By the time I'm ready for bed it is pretty much dialed in. MM

 

[MrFL54]

I'm not sure. It's a Garmin 740s. I really haven't had time to even look at it since installing. I don't even know if my thru hull transducer works yet...lol I hope to take her out this weekend to test. I'm trying to cram so much in so little time to make the June 22 Bimini trip while at the same time the "Snow Birds" are heading home and hitting us all at once!! Tonight I'm trying to figure out if it's worth taking this 9' Zodiac and motor and how to carry it!! Ahhhh I love it!!

Your Garmin does have an anchor alarm. I have the same unit and it works well. Just remember when anchored with one anchor set the drift distance to allow for the swing. Also if there is an incoming and outgoing tide you might want to set it more than twice the rode you have out.