Advice to brokers

[islandhopper00]

The difference between wholesale and retail is called profit. All businesses need to make profit, or they wont be there when you need something. I am sure what ever business you are in makes a profit. The job of a buyer is to reduce the profit as much as possible, but a profit needs to be made.

Yeah, but the dealers profit margin shouldn't be based upon how well they can screw people! Car sales people are total scumb, don't see how most of them can sleep at night taking advantage of people. I have seen and heard sales jackles laughing at people because they are "so stupid". Boat sales people aren't far behind these days.

I wanted to add. I've heard dealers say, "we have to maxamize our profits, by squeezing the most we can out of every customer, because we don't have as many viable customers to make that margin".
When I heard that, that was what convinced me to not be a customer anymore.

 

[islandhopper00]

DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! We have a winner.


Just curious if those who are brokers here find this and other perceptions (mine included) out of the norm and see boating going back to being a rich mans sport?

Rich mans sport. 100k ski boats? 100k pontoons, 35ft bowriders? Only rich people could buy a new boat, put it in a marina. Then rarely take it out on the lake.

 

[islandhopper00]

The difference between wholesale and retail is called profit. All businesses need to make profit, or they wont be there when you need something. I am sure what ever business you are in makes a profit. The job of a buyer is to reduce the profit as much as possible, but a profit needs to be made.

One more comment and I'll quit.
You're in "the business" and make a statement like that, to discredit my logic. Sad man. Wholesale for wholesale or retail for retail.....
Hi retail, low retail. Hi wholesale, low wholesale. Trade value. There are many scales in sales. Pick one, and lets talk. Not, yours is hi retail, and mine is low wholesale.......crap, at least consider "trade value". But I guess we suckers don't know anything about dealer "blue books".

The RV sales person I talked to, opened his "book" and just showed me the values it. I'm a big boy, and can handle the truth. I don't like people pissing on my head, and then try to tell me it's raining.

 

[bahamabreisus]

One more comment and I'll quit.
You're in "the business" and make a statement like that, to discredit my logic. Sad man. Wholesale for wholesale or retail for retail.....
Hi retail, low retail. Hi wholesale, low wholesale. Trade value. There are many scales in sales. Pick one, and lets talk. Not, yours is hi retail, and mine is low wholesale.......crap, at least consider "trade value". But I guess we suckers don't know anything about dealer "blue books".

The RV sales person I talked to, opened his "book" and just showed me the values it. I'm a big boy, and can handle the truth. I don't like people pissing on my head, and then try to tell me it's raining.

Again, not trying to start an argument. There is a difference between brokers and dealers, brokers are selling other peoples boats, dealers are selling their own inventory. As far a RV sales, there are many RVs sold, so NADA is a fairly accurate resource. Boat NADA is so far off on values, both high and low, but banks need a guide. So as a broker selling someones boat, our only profit is commission. My job is to get the seller as much as possible, and when representing a buyer, get it for as little as possible. Our company does not take trades, just because we dont want to get into arguing about values. I know there are some pretty crappy brokers out there, I pride myself in actually helping people buy and sell.

 

[almostenuff]

Recently, I decided to "scale down" and trade in my 390DA for a brand new 315 BW Conquest. The MM dealer found me a boat 500 miles away and we fought hard to arrive at a price. Finally, we agreed and I felt that I wasn't going to get anymore out of them, so I agreed to the terms. So, the night before I was to take my boat in for survey/sea trial, I double check the sales sheet against the online spec sheet and I note three options ($5,600) that he promised, don't appear to be on the boat. I call and ask some leading questions and he confirms all options are correct; so I said call your other dealer to confirm (I've never seen the boat). He calls back and says "There's a small error, but we'll LET you have those 3 options at our cost". I said that we already had a deal including them and I wouldn't pay a penny more. He then starts backtracking and says that I shouldn't be upset with him since it was my responsibility to confirm the accuracy of the options?! My first and last dealing with MM. needless to say, I still have my boat. He let a $341,000 deal fall apart, and more importantly, the MM reputation because he didn't do his job and failed to take ownership when he screwed up. Sadly, I had remarked to the GM that this salesman was the best that I'd ever dealt with on a high end transaction.


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[fwebster]

Did you give Marine Max a deposit and sign a sales agreement?

If you did, you have an enforceable contract. If you haven't let your money get mad at this point, you should go sit down with the store's general manager.....not the salesman and not the sales manager......and calmly explain that the way their sales contract is drafted and the fact that you gave them a deposit (your consideration) you have an enforceable contract and you expect them to deliver the boat as agreed with the options listed on the contract. If he balks then ask him for his bosses contact information and let him know that you intend to pursue this as far up t he pecking order as needed to get specific performance on their contract.

The gotcha in this is that they have yet to survey your boat and they can still kill the deal based on the survey findings.

 

[JVM225]

People in sales are in it to make a profit or commission. They are entitled to make a living.
If a dealer takes a trade they have to make that trade ready for sale, advertise it, and maintain it while it is on the market.
Lets take for example a difference of $20,000.00 between what they pay for the trade, and what they eventually sell it for. They can easily eat up half of that cost making necessary repairs, replacing worn items, advertising it, and whatever it cost them to store the boat while it's in their possession. If they have to winterize it while they own it that adds to the cost. If something breaks while it's in their possession they have to fix it. Very often they are paying interest on a loan during the time they own it too.
That $20,000.00 spread gets thin quickly. If something big breaks, like a motor, a profit can disappear completely or even turn in to a loss.. No matter what happens they still have to pay the bills for their place of business and salaries for support staff.
Once the boat sells the salesman is entitled to a commission.
While it may sound like a real score for a dealer to sell a boat for 20K more than they gave the previous owner for it on trade, it isn't always.
In a perfect world a boat owner would sell their boat privately before buying the next one. In the real world that isn't always possible, and sometimes that may simply be because the seller doesn't have the time to dedicate to selling. The answer is often to trade the boat in, but when doing so the boat owner has to realize that there is a cost for that convenience.
When buying a boat from a dealer the purchaser should know what the realistic value of it is. That may translate to full retail in some cases. You may be able to find the same year, make, and model a little cheaper from a private seller, but you have to ask yourself if it really is any cheaper.
Most times a dealer has gone through the boat and made it ready for sale with everything working, and sometimes they will give you a warranty for a short period of time just in case something comes up.
When you buy from a private party there is a chance that something needs to be done. Even if the boat really needs nothing (very rare), once you take possession of the boat you are on your own.
You're more likely to get a real bargain from a private seller in terms of selling price, but there is a good chance that something you buy for below market value is going to require an investment of time and money. If you look forward to adding value to a boat through some sweat equity then you can get yourself a good deal with the right boat. If not, then you'll likely spend more in the long run for that bargain boat then you would have paid for a turn key boat through a dealer.

 

[dpmulvey]

i am a VP of Sales for a healthcare technology company. I have been in sales since 1984. The above is true and accurate.

In over 30 years in sales I've never sold a product.
Most sales people fail because they don't know the secret to sales.

I rarely give away my professional insights but since many here have helped me I'll offer this illustration.

Selling boats is a lot like selling sausage. Your commercial can focus on on a meat packing freezer room with stainless steel saws and a butcher wearing a blood soaked apron squeezing goo through the grinder -OR - you commercial can show a bbq party in a beautiful back yard with beautiful people standing around having a great time, standing around the grill w beers in their hands laughing and enjoying grilling delicious sizzling brats and sausages.

Most brokers are sausage sales people

Explains a lot of buyers remorse.

 

[mquiet]

This has been an interesting conversation. When I sold my boat after years of me taking care of it. The market determined the value. When I bought my new to me, the market determines the value. Misrepresenting is another issue. That to me is more a matter of one's belief system. I am in sales and although I like to maximize my potential, I always walk and talk a very honest line as the consequences are to dangerous to someone. The real discussion here is the buyer or sellers ability to vett a quality person to represent them. Word spreads fast these days. Look at how we are all feeling about Marinemax. My last plug: if you need someone to help you find a boat tell Bahamabreisus what you want and need. Then how much and let him get to work. You always get a 100% of what you don't ask for.


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[FootballFan]

This has been an interesting conversation. When I sold my boat after years of me taking care of it. The market determined the value. When I bought my new to me, the market determines the value. Misrepresenting is another issue. That to me is more a matter of one's belief system. I am in sales and although I like to maximize my potential, I always walk and talk a very honest line as the consequences are to dangerous to someone. The real discussion here is the buyer or sellers ability to vett a quality person to represent them. Word spreads fast these days. Look at how we are all feeling about Marinemax. My last plug: if you need someone to help you find a boat tell Bahamabreisus what you want and need. Then how much and let him get to work. You always get a 100% of what you don't ask for.


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+1, well said.

Mark

 

[bahamabreisus]

Thanks mquiet and football

 

[BeeBoating]

Great discussion. To those that aren't happy with trade-in-values and simultaneously complaining about brokers - be a broker, sell your boat. Don't trade it in.

There are many different types of buyers. If there were better buyers there would be better sellers/brokers. In my last six boat/aircraft purchases, I've engaged exactly seven sellers. One boat I looked at scared me. Otherwise, I've zeroed in on what I wanted, negotiated the deal and closed. With the wealth of information available that doesn't require a phone call - I just shake my head when I hear stories about "shopping for a year, talked to a lot of sellers, etc.."

Lot of tire kickers out there. Can you imagine the stories the sellers tell about buyers?

I loved the post about "bought for market price, sold for market price." You've got it.