AC Converter failure

[melida]

Quick info and a little history of my battery configuration and problem.

My boat has two 105 Amp car size and one 200 Amp truck size batteries and have factory installed Professional Mariner Flyback 20-3 (220volt) converter.

From factory boat equipped with the Perko battery switch only ON and OFF. PO had changed the it (by Searay importer of our country) to a Vetus ON, OFF, 1, 2 battery switch. Twin 105’s are the # “1” and 200 is the # “2”. I use the 2 for house and spare the 1 for starting the engine.

The 105s are 4 years old and 200 is 3. This July while anchored (battery switch at the 2 position) after a few hours suddenly the voice of stereo decreased. I increased the sound level to 32 but still it’s like set to 3-4. Meanwhile refrigerator, head, water pump were on and not stopped. I also tested the inverter and got power to operate AC appliances, so thought that my stereo or speakers were shot. I switched the battery switch to both then speakers act as what they should be. So thought that is a battery problem.

Started the engine with the battery switch at BOTH then pulled the anchor and ran to the marina. When I tied my boat, hooked to shore power and turned the AC converter on. Climbed down to engine room and saw that ac converter was getting only 1-2 amps while should go to 20-30 amps, so it doesn’t charging. Meanwhile the other AC appliances were working so I didn’t have a general electrical issue.

A few days later came onboard and saw that ac converter’s gauge showing 0 amps and light was green, which means charging completed. Then stared the engine but engines voltmeter was showing 11,5 -12-12,5 instead of 13-14 volts. Then climbed down to ER and saw that my 105 Amp batteries were bulged like a balloon. Called my electrician (Volvo Penta) and he came onboard, load tested the batteries and 105s’ were 8-9 volts and 200 was 12,6 volts.

Then I bought new batteries with same amps. My dash voltmeter was showing 13-14 but when I hooked to shore power and even after highly used DC appliances still ac converter not getting sufficient amps. Again 1-2 amps, then 2-3 days later 0 amps and green light. I was thinking about my batteries are new and they don’t need higher amps for charging since they are fully charged while cruising.

Also I tightened the belt of engine alternator to exclude the possibility of engine caused.

Long story short realized that my ac converter is shot. Disconnected the cables and dissembled it from the engine room.

(This passed winter (feb-march), I came onboard and saw that ac converter button at the mdp was off. Thought the guy who cleans my boat touched it, pushed the button then it tripped, once again and same. Disassembled the converter, opened inside and it was wet and some rust due to the extra diesel side vents(seen in my sig pic) I have just above/outside of where the converter is located. Sent it to my electrician buddy and he cleaned, replaced the parts, and then it was working and getting amps (30) until July. Also did a canal over the converter where the rain water comes from the vent hoses, routed to aft of engine room, so bone dry converter.)

Called again my buddy and told the whole story and IMO converter is shot and gonna send him to fix it.When I opened the converter saw that the fuse is shot, as suggested in the trouble shooting section owners manual. Thought to replace that 25amp car type fuse but got the smell of burnt.

At the upper part of the converter there is part (don’t now what it is called) seems burned and smells as you can see in below pic.

I think the dead batteries wanted to take the converter with them to garbage but the fuse saved the left life of the converter.

What do you guys think about the condition of my converter?
Does the only new fuse sufficient to operate it again or the burnt part must replaced?
Or should I buy a new smart charger? Which I don’t want to throw money for it.
TIA for reading such a long post.

 

[kaz911]

Well it looks to me like the power transistors (4 black "chips" standing up against the cooling plate) have been changed before. That does NOT look like a factory job.

So I dont know if the burning of the connector on the last picture is recent or "old"

The best thing is to try and repair it - and put a cheap load on it while you measure output volt and amps to check if it is within specs.

 

[melida]

Well it looks to me like the power transistors (4 black "chips" standing up against the cooling plate) have been changed before. That does NOT look like a factory job.

So I dont know if the burning of the connector on the last picture is recent or "old"

The best thing is to try and repair it - and put a cheap load on it while you measure output volt and amps to check if it is within specs.

Kaz, thanks for your input.
As usual gonna start from the easiest and less expensive side of fixing.
I'm mechanically minded but not much electrically inclined, wish I would, gonna ask them to my buddy.

 

[melida]

Update for whom interested and/or have the same era/model battery charger.

Yesterday I got back the charger fixed and then installed it to it's place in er.

The melted 25A fuse replaced and the burnt part cleaned/fixed, forgot to open the charger to took photos of it.

Anyway, I reassembled the cables/wires and then pushed the button of AC converter in the mdp. The needle of the amp meter of converter flew to 25amp.

Whilst engine voltmeter was showing 13-13,5 volts. (engine not started)

It's been more than 16 hours when I started the converter for charging, I guess it's now at 0 amp and light is green, gonna check tonight.

 

[kaz911]

hmm seems like the current limiter circuit is not working? Is it not supposed to be only a 20 Amp charger?

 

[melida]

hmm seems like the current limiter circuit is not working? Is it not supposed to be only a 20 Amp charger?

Kaz, yes its supposed to be 3 bank 20 amp charger.
As I said earlier I'm not much electrically minded, but it's always like that since I bought the boat and that didn't caused any problem, though never my batteries been thursty like recently for need of extended hours of 25+amps charging.

 

[techmitch]

Are the battery switches in the off position? If so, is there anything besides the bilge pump and the radio memory wire connected to ANY of the battery's causing the excessive current draw?

 

[melida]

Are the battery switches in the off position? If so, is there anything besides the bilge pump and the radio memory wire connected to ANY of the battery's causing the excessive current draw?

No, the battery switch was at BOTH, as you can see from the pic bilge light was on, I was listening ipod and my daughter was watching dvd in the cabin. But when I leave the boat I turn the switch to OFF.

Saturday afternoon I went to my island home and battery switch was at position 2, forgot to turn it to BOTH. Engine started fine, used the bow thruster while leaving and at the island marina, fridge was on, used autopilot, radar and stereo, BUT voltmeter stayed at 12,5 during my 12 minutes on plane ride. Sunday morning while returning I set the battery switch to Both and used same DC appliances, voltmeter was showing 13-13,5-barely 14 volts again in 12 minutes ride.

I guess my number 2 200amp battery(use it for house service) is more drained than the number 1 engine batteries.

Could it cause what you're referring ?

 

[techmitch]

Still seems odd that the gauge is pegged. What about anything else wired to battery's?

 

[melida]

Still seems odd that the gauge is pegged. What about anything else wired to battery's?

Nothing different from factory setup.

 

[techmitch]

Just reread entire thread and I noticed in post #6 you said that "though never my batteries been thursty like recently for need of extended hours of 25+amps charging." If this is the case, then we need to retrace your steps to identify what has changed to cause your issue. Remember, it is possible to get a BAD, "new battery"

 

[melida]

Just reread entire thread and I noticed in post #6 you said that "though never my batteries been thursty like recently for need of extended hours of 25+amps charging." If this is the case, then we need to retrace your steps to identify what has changed to cause your issue. Remember, it is possible to get a BAD, "new battery"

I bought both of them new on july 14 fully pre charged.

Don't want to think about if they are defective from factory, at least the number 2 big battery. It's 60kgs and it's dificullt to hold up and then grab it over the small batteries, and then over the engine to the cockpit floor with my 60% lost ability right hand fingers.:smt089

 

[techmitch]

Wow, that's a drag! No pun intended. Well, take some time to think about/retrace your steps in effort to pinpoint exactly what has changed that has caused this extra "thirst". Also this may a great time to invest in a good battery tester that test for both proper voltage and load capacity. Keep in mind it is imperative that the battery's are fully charged and all connections removed before testing.

P.S. Even though the battery's are new, you should double check the water level in all.
(top off with distilled water only)
Also, feel free to P.M. me to exchange phone #'s if I can help you better in that manner.

 

[melida]

Wow, that's a drag! No pun intended. Well, take some time to think about/retrace your steps in effort to pinpoint exactly what has changed that has caused this extra "thirst". Also this may a great time to invest in a good battery tester that test for both proper voltage and load capacity. Keep in mind it is imperative that the battery's are fully charged and all connections removed before testing.

P.S. Even though the battery's are new, you should double check the water level in all.
(top off with distilled water only)
Also, feel free to P.M. me to exchange phone #'s if I can help you better in that manner.

Mitch, I can shortly sum up the recent story.

At early july batteries dead where I didn't aware or realized yet, battery charger failed, even the engine alternator and it's belt set and tighetened correctly I was getting 12-12,5 volts, though I was using all the DC tools same time like before and remaining battery capacity was operating the AC tools via inverter.

Then load tested them and 2x105s were giving 8,5 volts and 200 was giving 12,5volt and then bought new batteries and I was fine with them, but getting 13 volts charge from engine.

Yesterday put the charger again and it's charging since last night 7pm. Gonna check tonight how much the ammeter will show on the gauge of charger.

I want to be optimisitic and want to beleive that I heavily used the new batteries and perhaps I drain them to much like half of their capacity, at least the number 2 bc I set to 2 the switch while anchored and reserve the 1 as spare for engine, so 2 is more thursty.

As I said a few post earlier, while the 2 selected I was getting 12-12,5 volts on plane but with Both selected I was getting more than 13-13,5 volts.

Also gonna check the diods of engine alternator.

Thanks for the offer and I'm sending my cell # and email then you can add me to skype, whatsup and viber for free overseas communicating.:grin:

 

[techmitch]

Got your P.M. and #. At this point let's wait and see what you find out tonight, (time zone difference ?) who knows, all may be well. Keep us posted and we'll go from there.

 

[melida]

Oh forgot to tell that I checked the electrolyte level of the batteries yesterday and they were not needed to top off.

Also I'm interested to buy a multimeter for checking the batteries and other electrical items. Will it also indicate the battery load condition or to do it should I buy another tool ?

I was going to check the charger tonight but will checkit in the morning bc I forgot my dentist appoinmet right now.

Glad you got the pm.

 

[melida]

Got the phone from the guy two hours ago who looks after to my boat, battery charger ammeter is at 0.

So the charging completed.

Gonna use the DC equipments heavily on saturday when I get to boat to see if the charger would fly to 25 amps again, or if it will how much time will it charge 25amps.

Many times I saw that while it tops off the batteries, the ammmeter decreases thorugh 0 and then green light cames on.

 

[melida]

Update :smt089

As I said in my last post "ammeter is at 0", BUT when I got to the boat saw that led was red, so the problem is still there.

Uninstalled and opened it up, wondered the internal 25 amp fuse was shot, but not, though I replaced it with 30 amp which is the max of that size.

Repacked and hooked the cables but again 0 amps amps and red light. Also I played with bow thruster and run the blower to consume high amps which may start the converter to charging, but no avail.

Uninstalled and sent to my buddy again.

Called me an hour ago and passed me his condolences of my charger. :smt089 It was gone due to the AC input side.

He said it could reparable almost the cost of a new charger, and will not guaranty it.
So I have to buy a new converter.:smt021

I haven't dig in to the BOE site yet, but I guess Jim would give me some special bonus sale for me as an overseas fan of his site.

What specific brand/model do you guys recommend to me as I need to charge my 12 volt 2x105 and 1x200 total of 410amp batteries, and of course must be a 220 Volt, waterproof and three bank converter(and also three stage charging).

Did a quick search while posting and now I'm between Promariner Pronautic 1240 and Xantrex true charge 2 40A which is app 70$ cheaper, but dunno if they are water proof, as I have the extra diesel went just a few inches above the converter.

HTH.
TIA.