About to purchase a 2007 Sea Ray 48 SD ...

[Grahambda]

Hi, I am about to purchase a 2007 Sea Ray 48 SD, the purchase price is very attractive (sub-$200k). engines have approx 3,600 hours and overall, the boat is in good general condition, but requires some TLC. The owner has identified the following issues:

Bow thruster inoperable (needs troubleshooting).
Starboard engine can only rev to around 1,500 apparently some "fin problem"with the turbo.
Electronics will need upgrading.

She has low hours for the past two years (less than 200) and has been used as a skipper-driven luxury day charter boat, with no overnighting.

Now I plan to have a complete engine and hull survey and, based on the low purchase price, have a provisional budget in the $50-75k range to bring her up to a good running condition.

In the absence of the survey results (which will cost me $3-4k to complete), are there any recommendations re potential issues or concerns that I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Rgds Graham.

 

[ttmott]

Hey Graham - You are in the right place to fill your head with data. There are some great knowledge here. Is this a 48 Sundancer? That would be a 48DA from a model number aspect.
The surveys are a must have and your insurance will require them anyway. But, there is much more that a prospective owner needs to during the survey process. First make sure the owner/broker have the maintenance records on the boat and provide them to the surveyors for their review. If no maintenance records that is a "down check". Photos, photos, photos as these will be key to support negotiations post surveys. I'll give you my points and I'm sure others will add -
Hull - Beyond what the hull survey will look at, make sure the surveyor goes over the top deck very well for delamination, especially around hatches, anchor locker, and any penetrations through the gelcoat. I don't believe these boats were cored on the hull sides but they are on the decks and transom, need to verify, but that will test the knowledge of the surveyor if they spend a lot of time looking for delam's on the hull; transom is different and that is a critical area to check. Look closely at the mating parts of the boat and the condition of the caulking. Spider cracking is inevitable but there should be very little and should only be in areas of heavy layup and tight radius corners. Look at the window glass bedding. Verify the hatches and doors operate smoothly and seal when closed. Take a look at the rubrail and note any gross abrasions or what looks to be replacement; this would indicate to look closer at the hull around those areas for any repairs or impact damage. When hauled out play the anchor down and all of the chain out then inspect the chain and the anchor locker; you can climb into the anchor chain locker and inspect the windlass underside for excessive corrosion. This will check the condition of the windlass, chain, anchor, and batteries. As the prospective owner, spend as much time as needed looking at every little thing on the boat's exterior; wiggle, move, pull, open, close, and simply look closely at every inch of it. Don't ignore your "gut feeling". Make the surveyor earn their money with any questions you might have and things you think they need to look at or review. The condition and appearance of the boat's exterior is an indicator of it's care.
Interior - It is critical these calibers of boats stay airconditioned their entire life; Look carefully at all surfaces and inside of hatches and cabinets for any mold or mildew. Your nose is the go-no-go. If the boat smells bad or is artificially scented inside, you will spend years trying to get it right - for me smell inside of the boat is one of the primary determining factosr moving forward to surveys or walking away. Look closely at the cabinet finishes; are they clean and bright? Or are they scratched, clouded, delaminated? This BTW is an indicator not only how well the boat was cared for but also if the interior was airconditioned. Look and operate drawers and doors - hinges, latches, closet lights, drawer guides, etc... Look at the shower sump and it's condition; open it up. There is a story to be told on how well the boat was cared for in that sump. Open all of the floor hatches and get in there with bright lights and look all around for any signs of water accumulation. Operate every light in the boat and note any issues. Operate every HVAC unit and inspect the HVAC drain pans. Set all of the HVAC units to low temperatures and measure the air temperatures at the diffusers around the cabin. There should be a minimum of a ten-degree differential between cabin temperature and discharge air. Pull and inspect the HVAC filter screens; another indicator of how well the boat was cared for. Look for any signs of water staining on carpets and vinyls. Operate every appliance. Become familiar in the operation of the OEM audio/visual system and be able to exercise it; it may have been modified or replaced so have the owner/representative go through it with you and the surveyor. Exercise the vacuflush systems and if it basically works OK but if you acquire the boat plan on a complete refurbishment including rebuilding the vacuum generators and hose replacement as part of your baseline process. I think it was in these timeframes that SR had issues with the blackwater hoses and their permeability - in other words, the hoses stink. If this boat has satellite TV and the owner still has an active receiver great but doubtful - the only way is to turn on the antenna and verify by sound that it is locking on to the appropriate satellite. Ask if it is set up for Dish or DTV. Any signs of cockroaches? Once they take hold you are in for a battle... Does the fresh water flow well from all of the spigots and showers and does it smell ok. Hot water flowing?
Engine Room / Bilge - The first thing I look at is the boat's bonding system, all of the heavy gauge green wires. In my opinion this is probably the most overlooked but most important system on the boat. Spend the time to look this system over carefully - is every metal component on the boat exposed to raw water bonded with good corrosion free terminations? What do the anodes (zincs) look like and when were they last services? If the hull zinc is of any age at all make sure it is being consumed. Ask the owner if you can pull one zinc from each engine to see their condition. The surveyor will not pull the engine zinc's but I think it important to look at them. Is the bilge/engine room clean, well lit, and generally corrosion free? Is it dry? Are the shaft seals dry? Look closely and the main circuit breaker panel for any tripped breakers and remove the cover from the main disconnect panel and inspect for corrosion and condition of the circuit breakers in there. Look carefully at all of the hydraulic hoses for cracks and aging and the steering ram for any signs of leakage. Operate the trim tabs and verify full articulation and no hydraulic leaking. Operate all thru-hull seacocks and verify they can be open and closed. Verify all of the USCG placards are in place. Start and load the generator with all of the HVAC running, water heater on, etc - fully load it and have the surveyor verify the voltage and frequency as well as the oil pressure/temperature. Look closely inside the generator's sound enclosure for any corrosion, water leaks, oil leaks, etc. Look closely at the raw water pump for leaking from the drip port at the bearings.
Spend the time, crawl around, dig in and ask questions.
Helm - You are going to find as you have noted the helm navigational electronics closing on their life-cycle; if they are still operational that's good but you are wise to plan a budget to replace. This includes BTW the transducers, GPS receivers, etc. Check the steerage. Check navigational lights, and spotlight. Do the helm seats fully articulate and effortless to move? Any signs of water intrusion in the cockpit? The icemaker if operational is a bonus.
Obsolesces - This is where you consider Gelcoat polish/wax, canvas, normal wear and tear, exterior floor coverings, maybe vinyls that are routinely exposed to the environment and budget for replacement. Electronics and AV. If the vessel is well priced for this market these will not be negotiation elements.
Baselining and budget - If you decide to purchase this boat plan on a complete baseline and do a complete service on it wither the owner says it was done or not; heat exchangers, raw water pumps, valves, etc. Do it and not look back. Plan $15K - $20K to baseline the mechanicals. Soft things - If the canvas is due to be replaced get it done. Plan $8K for that. Helm electronics - to replace and update the electronics including new MFD's, radar, GPS, sounders, autopilot as you desired in the original positing, you are looking closer to $30K to $40K for all that. The sky is the limit on AV so that is a variable but low on the budget priority; at least to me it is.

I'll probably get slammed for this long diatribe but if you read through what some have gone through I hope this helps.

 

[swaterhouse]

If your worried about spending 3-4k on a survey a boat selling for half it's value is probably not a great choice.

The "fin" thing probably means it needs a new turbo. But that likely also means it need new exhaust elbows as well as the fins are probably rusted from water leaking back down into turbo. If it's bad on one side it's likely bad on the other.

When was the last full raw water system cleaning? Should be done every 2-3 years. If never plan on new heat exchangers.

Full electronics will be anywhere from 10k for a minimal setup to 25k for full redo.

As for the rest of the boat plan potentially on new A/C, lots of electrical gremlins etc.

 

[douglee25]

3600 hours?

 

[Grahambda]

Hey Graham - You are in the right place to fill your head with data. There are some great knowledge here. Is this a 48 Sundancer? That would be a 48DA from a model number aspect.
The surveys are a must have and your insurance will require them anyway. But, there is much more that a prospective owner needs to during the survey process. First make sure the owner/broker have the maintenance records on the boat and provide them to the surveyors for their review. If no maintenance records that is a "down check". Photos, photos, photos as these will be key to support negotiations post surveys. I'll give you my points and I'm sure others will add -
Hull - Beyond what the hull survey will look at, make sure the surveyor goes over the top deck very well for delamination, especially around hatches, anchor locker, and any penetrations through the gelcoat. I don't believe these boats were cored on the hull sides but they are on the decks and transom, need to verify, but that will test the knowledge of the surveyor if they spend a lot of time looking for delam's on the hull; transom is different and that is a critical area to check. Look closely at the mating parts of the boat and the condition of the caulking. Spider cracking is inevitable but there should be very little and should only be in areas of heavy layup and tight radius corners. Look at the window glass bedding. Verify the hatches and doors operate smoothly and seal when closed. Take a look at the rubrail and note any gross abrasions or what looks to be replacement; this would indicate to look closer at the hull around those areas for any repairs or impact damage. When hauled out play the anchor down and all of the chain out then inspect the chain and the anchor locker; you can climb into the anchor chain locker and inspect the windlass underside for excessive corrosion. This will check the condition of the windlass, chain, anchor, and batteries. As the prospective owner, spend as much time as needed looking at every little thing on the boat's exterior; wiggle, move, pull, open, close, and simply look closely at every inch of it. Don't ignore your "gut feeling". Make the surveyor earn their money with any questions you might have and things you think they need to look at or review. The condition and appearance of the boat's exterior is an indicator of it's care.
Interior - It is critical these calibers of boats stay airconditioned their entire life; Look carefully at all surfaces and inside of hatches and cabinets for any mold or mildew. Your nose is the go-no-go. If the boat smells bad or is artificially scented inside, you will spend years trying to get it right - for me smell inside of the boat is one of the primary determining factosr moving forward to surveys or walking away. Look closely at the cabinet finishes; are they clean and bright? Or are they scratched, clouded, delaminated? This BTW is an indicator not only how well the boat was cared for but also if the interior was airconditioned. Look and operate drawers and doors - hinges, latches, closet lights, drawer guides, etc... Look at the shower sump and it's condition; open it up. There is a story to be told on how well the boat was cared for in that sump. Open all of the floor hatches and get in there with bright lights and look all around for any signs of water accumulation. Operate every light in the boat and note any issues. Operate every HVAC unit and inspect the HVAC drain pans. Set all of the HVAC units to low temperatures and measure the air temperatures at the diffusers around the cabin. There should be a minimum of a ten-degree differential between cabin temperature and discharge air. Pull and inspect the HVAC filter screens; another indicator of how well the boat was cared for. Look for any signs of water staining on carpets and vinyls. Operate every appliance. Become familiar in the operation of the OEM audio/visual system and be able to exercise it; it may have been modified or replaced so have the owner/representative go through it with you and the surveyor. Exercise the vacuflush systems and if it basically works OK but if you acquire the boat plan on a complete refurbishment including rebuilding the vacuum generators and hose replacement as part of your baseline process. I think it was in these timeframes that SR had issues with the blackwater hoses and their permeability - in other words, the hoses stink. If this boat has satellite TV and the owner still has an active receiver great but doubtful - the only way is to turn on the antenna and verify by sound that it is locking on to the appropriate satellite. Ask if it is set up for Dish or DTV. Any signs of cockroaches? Once they take hold you are in for a battle... Does the fresh water flow well from all of the spigots and showers and does it smell ok. Hot water flowing?
Engine Room / Bilge - The first thing I look at is the boat's bonding system, all of the heavy gauge green wires. In my opinion this is probably the most overlooked but most important system on the boat. Spend the time to look this system over carefully - is every metal component on the boat exposed to raw water bonded with good corrosion free terminations? What do the anodes (zincs) look like and when were they last services? If the hull zinc is of any age at all make sure it is being consumed. Ask the owner if you can pull one zinc from each engine to see their condition. The surveyor will not pull the engine zinc's but I think it important to look at them. Is the bilge/engine room clean, well lit, and generally corrosion free? Is it dry? Are the shaft seals dry? Look closely and the main circuit breaker panel for any tripped breakers and remove the cover from the main disconnect panel and inspect for corrosion and condition of the circuit breakers in there. Look carefully at all of the hydraulic hoses for cracks and aging and the steering ram for any signs of leakage. Operate the trim tabs and verify full articulation and no hydraulic leaking. Operate all thru-hull seacocks and verify they can be open and closed. Verify all of the USCG placards are in place. Start and load the generator with all of the HVAC running, water heater on, etc - fully load it and have the surveyor verify the voltage and frequency as well as the oil pressure/temperature. Look closely inside the generator's sound enclosure for any corrosion, water leaks, oil leaks, etc. Look closely at the raw water pump for leaking from the drip port at the bearings.
Spend the time, crawl around, dig in and ask questions.
Helm - You are going to find as you have noted the helm navigational electronics closing on their life-cycle; if they are still operational that's good but you are wise to plan a budget to replace. This includes BTW the transducers, GPS receivers, etc. Check the steerage. Check navigational lights, and spotlight. Do the helm seats fully articulate and effortless to move? Any signs of water intrusion in the cockpit? The icemaker if operational is a bonus.
Obsolesces - This is where you consider Gelcoat polish/wax, canvas, normal wear and tear, exterior floor coverings, maybe vinyls that are routinely exposed to the environment and budget for replacement. Electronics and AV. If the vessel is well priced for this market these will not be negotiation elements.
Baselining and budget - If you decide to purchase this boat plan on a complete baseline and do a complete service on it wither the owner says it was done or not; heat exchangers, raw water pumps, valves, etc. Do it and not look back. Plan $15K - $20K to baseline the mechanicals. Soft things - If the canvas is due to be replaced get it done. Plan $8K for that. Helm electronics - to replace and update the electronics including new MFD's, radar, GPS, sounders, autopilot as you desired in the original positing, you are looking closer to $30K to $40K for all that. The sky is the limit on AV so that is a variable but low on the budget priority; at least to me it is.

I'll probably get slammed for this long diatribe but if you read through what some have gone through I hope this helps.

 

[Grahambda]

Wow thank you so much! Great detail, the surveyor I have lined up has a v.good reputation, but this information will be invaluable as I'm not sure how many SR's he has surveyed so this level of detail will be great as an additional checklist.

 

[Grahambda]

3600 hours?

 

[bahamabreisus]

3600 hours?

Certainly doable, 240 hrs a year. A lot of use.

 

[Grahambda]

Yep, well 3680 on the engine gauges, but presume the engine surveyor will get the accurate reading when connecting his computer. Assuming that many hours are not excessive for those engines (?) but of course, all related to how well the owner has looked after them. Will definitely get an oil analysis done.

 

[Grahambda]

Certainly doable, 240 hrs a year. A lot of use.

 

[douglee25]

Certainly doable, 240 hrs a year. A lot of use.

Definitely doable. Definitely a lot of use. Not saying that it's a good or bad thing, just do your homework and evaluate future resale at some point.

 

[Grahambda]

She has been kept and run in the Islands since 2012, so down here 250-300 hours a year is about average (that's what I ran on my prior boats - Tiara and World Cat, averaged a full day a week most weeks of the year. But again, it's down to how well he maintained them, running a luxury charter biz she had to be ready and in good running order, but then again COVID killed off his business so not sure what he has done to his maintenance schedule for the past 2-3 years - all, hopefully, will be revealed during the survey's.