99 480 Sedan Bridge?

Bill Gillespie

Bill Gillespie

Member
Apr 20, 2007
222
Danville, CA
Boat Info
2006 44 Sundancer
Engines
Cummins QS5
We are doing a sea trial of the above boat with 3196 Cat engines with 200 hours. What do the board members know or think of this boat? We will be doing a moisture test of the hull. It has been strictly kept in fresh water.

Bill Gillespie
 
This model Cat engine has had 2 known serious defects. They did not affect all engines.

Get a Caterpillar servicing dealer to survey the engines before you agree to buy the boat because Caterpillar is no longer repairing the defects under warranty. The cost of missing a valve or aftercooler problem can be as much as the cost of a new engine since either defect is usually a termoial event for the engine if it occurs. In addition to their normal survey, ask that the technician get a copy of the warranty repair record from the Cat system as well as do a blow by test, an oil analysis and a coolant analysis for both engines.

Good luck ........hope the boat surveys well for you.
 
Frank,

Thank you very much and it will be done. Those to whom I have spoken indicate (if the engines are healthy) that this boat handles very well for a bridge boat. It has a bow thruster. Any experience with this model?

Bill
 
This will be our 5th season on our 480. I don't have any experience with Cat engines so I'll defer that to people who do.

As you probably know, 1999 was really the first year of full production of the 480 (there were a limited number of 1998's I believe but they may have been tagged 1999 models) and since it was essentially an all new design, you'll need to make sure the surveyor covers some of the issues that the early years had. Since I have a 2003, many issues were addressed so I just would not have seen them.

In my opinion, the 1999-2004 480 is a good example of a cross between a convertible sport fish boat and a cruising yacht. Getting three very usable staterooms in a boat this size and style is hard to find. I think this boat is well balanced with the mid-engine/straight shaft layout and in rough weather, that makes a big difference. The boat will stay on plane all the way down to 12-13 mph and does not have the squatty/nose-up behavior of rear-engine/v-drive boats. The mid-engines, however, do take room away so it is a compromise. The boat does not have a sharp entry as a typical sport fish covertible (like Viking, Bertram, etc) but you get more room in the nose. The forward deck, like all newer Sea Rays, slopes down somewhat and so it is easy to bury the nose in rougher weather (when not on plane) or when running inlets. It's a fairly heavy boat at around 20 tons empty but I run mine alone all the time and find it very managable (I was out on mine yesterday alone starting at 5:30 am). The boat is a very different animal to drive than a Sundancer. It is also a fairly fast boat cruising around 30 mph at 45 gph and (2000 to 2100 RPM's). WOT is about 38 mph at 2300 rpm's.

I don't think you want me writing a review of the 480 but here are few things to look for:

1. Leaks. More glass = more leaks. Check very carefully around all the windows, especially the big front ones, for any leaks. This has been a constant battle for me and you have to make sure you catch any leak as fast as you can. Check the back sliding door area where the curtain tucks into the cove behind the TV. There are a few access panels on the sides under the windows and I would pull those off and look for any water leak issues. Pull up and check every hold access panel (like the ones under the port and starboard stateroom beds) and look for any signs of water. Those small porthole windows in the staterooms must be adjusted from time to time and if they are not, water will wick down under the beds.

2. I've heard that the early 480's had an issue with the salon AC unit being undersized. You may want to check that out before you purchase.

3. The 480 has a balsa cored hull. No getting around that and some of the early production models had problems. I'm not sure how wide spread it was but make sure your surveyor has experience with cored hulls. Especially look for any thru-hulls that were not factory. I'm very anal about keeping my bottom in tip-top shape and it's because any small damage can quickly turn into a big issue if not dealt with ASAP.

4. 200 hours on an 8 year old boat.... not sure if that is good or bad. My guess is that you are going to have to become familier with some of the systems (like vacuflush) because a lot of things on this boat have the "use it or lose it" problem. You may want to do a search on "duckbill valves" here on CSR. Ignore the bad humor and there is some useful info posted.

5. Bow thruster... I have one and I think all 480's probably do. I use it occasionally but this boat has big props with a lot of space between them and is very manuverable in tight quarters without it. Check the health of ALL the D batteries on this thing. The bow thruster is tied to two D batteries (one in front of each engine) and then there are two more in the lazarette area under the cockpit. If they are original, they need to be replaced. I only got 4 seasons on mine before I had to replace them.

This is a great boat and I recommend them now to other people. The prices have come down enough on the early models that I think makes them good buys. The styling is slick but not so slick it looks like a bubble boat.

Good luck. I see you were asking Frank for his opinion on this but... I answered anyway. :wink:
 
I haven't driven one, but I love the 480DB's. I hope to move into one of those one of these days......

Crap, back to work, before my mind wanders.
 
I have very limited exposure to the 480DB, but the only one I know very well is a '99. The owner loves the boat but it has had its share of issues. Initially, the salon air conditioner was totally inadequate (we're in NW Fla) and there were some areas of completely dead air. The dealer and Sea Ray added several duct outlets but the thinking was that the salon a/c was adequate. Air does move now, but I think it the a/c system is no more than marginal for this boat. I don't know if later boats were improved or not.

As far as handling is concerned, this is a big boat and should be run and handled like one. You must keep your mind ahead of the boat or you will get in trouble. Get accustomed to idling around in high traffic areas and near docks, marina, etc. because the 480 makes a big hole in the water as it passes by at speed.

These are not blue water boats but should be considered coastal cruisers. The owners of the '99 above has fought window leaks since he made his first crossing to South Fla and ended up running in 7-9' seas to make a schedule. There was enough flex in the deck house that several of the larger glass panels began to leak. They still deal with this one today.

This '99 has also had all the Cat problems and is now on its second set of new engines. They allowed Caterpillar to repair the engines when the valves dropped, but after t he boat was down for 3 months with aftercooler failures/repairs Sea Ray/Caterpillar replaced the 3196's with new crate engines. Mechanically, everything has been great since then.

I will also add that, for some reason, a reasonably large number of these boats don't seem to get used very much. I'm not surprised to hear of a '99 with very low time on it. Gary, however, uses his boat like a boat should be used..........I'd rely on his review more than most any other owner since he's probably seen more and understands the 480 better that the owner of a dock queen.
 
The other thing you need to keep in mind is that the maintenance costs are going to be substantially higher than your 370. You may have already planned on that though but make sure your budget can handle proper maintenance. For example, this boat has 4 AC systems with one of them being a dual split system so there are 6 AC pans with heat exchangers and/or compressors. They all have to be periodically checked and serviced which will be at least double from your 370. Big diesel engines require big diesel parts. An impeller for one QSM-11 is about $200. A water pump is about $1100 (parts only). The 8D size batteries take 2 people to move (at least) and there are 4 of those to go bad. Annual bottom job for sanding/painting/polishing is about $3200 for me. Bang up a prop and it has to be hauled (props/shafts are too big to do with a diver). Changing a prop quickly turns into a $1K+ event for a minor ding. Insurance... ugh... approaching $5K/year and that's with a $15K deductible. If you carry a liferaft, you have to get that repacked periodically... on and on and on... Fuel is still the cheapest part.

Again, great boat but make sure you understand the maintenance costs... I suspect that's why many of these boats sit at the docks most of the time and don't get serviced...
 
Gary and Frank:

Your input will cause the saleman's hair to turn gray but all of these issues will be addressed and, if discovered, will be repaired or the deal is dead. We are keeping the boat in the Cal. Delta and it has and will be kept in a covered berth. The previous owner ran the boat from the marina to a spot 20 minutes away and partied - thus the low hours.

The boat is being serviced as part of the deal ($355,000).

Your input is greatly appreciated and you guys embody the spirit of this website.

We are going to have installed the Seathrust system for our tender. The tests conducted by Sea Ray are most impressive.

Bill
 
Frank and Gary:

When shifting into gear a loud thump is apparent. It is similar to what occurs on our gas boat if the throttle is not at the idle position. Anything hints as to where or what I investigate during the engine and general surveys?

After driving a gas boat, the behavior of the 'big wheels' is incredible. It is funny that you mention speed in a marina, as I chastised the salesman and insisted that he slow down by using the idle diminish feature (could that be why trannies thump?).

Thanks again
 
I can't speak to any noises from that drive train and what is normal. My drive train is different... and I don't have any thuds other than me falling down the bridge steps from time to time.

"No Wake" in my 480 means 1 engine in gear and the other not in gear and that makes 6 - 7 mph. Both engines in gear give about 8 - 9 mph which perfect trolling for tuna BTW. I've driven some bigger boats and all of them require 1 engine not engaged for no wake zones.

As I said before.... the 480 can be intimidating because of the weight and power.... on to a 58 next! (not this year)
 
Gary and Frank:

New issue to worry about. The boat has 50 amp, 240 volt shore power. How does one get power from the marina so that all runs on the boat including the battery charger? Is the $350 'Y' adapter necessary?

Bill
 
Most marinas that can accomodate a 50'X16' boat will have 50A service and 50A recepticles. If your marina does not, it should have 30A service. You can connect to 2 30A legs with a "Y" adapter.

The problem with those adapters is cost and theft. I keep one (the reverse of the one you need since I have 2 30A inlets) but I removed the plug and added a chain loop then reattached the plug so I can lock mine to the power pole/pedestal with a chain and padlock when we leave the boat. Some people make their own adapters to get added length in order to avoid dealing with the cablemaster issues. Another alternative is to ask your marina to add a 50A recepticle for your boat. You might have to buy the parts, but its not a big deal since the 50A service is just 2 30A legs wired together in a single plug.
 
This is our 5th season on this boat and I've never had a lack of 50A power be an issue.

FYI
 
I am not sure if you have already bought this, but here is my $.02. This is a great boat as far as the trade offs for performance and size. It rides really well and gets reasonable mileage. I have just purchased a very used (1400 hours) 1998 480DB and while I am doing lots of maintenance, I think it is well worth it. It will be worth it next year as my plans are to cruise the Bahamas for 12 weeks.

As far as the Cats, my sources say that if there is a problem with the aftercoolers, Cat will fix them as part of trying to defend themselves from the pending class action. Once fixed, I think they have proven reliability.

I live in the Charleston area and my prop guys change my props under water (just dinged one :smt013 ).

I second (or third, or whatever) the advice on getting the fliuds analyzed and the blow-by test.

Almost all of my hose clamps need to be changed. I wish there was an easy way to buy them all at once.

I am now beginning to update all the systems that annoy me (tube televisions, tube PPI, and no Sat TV), and as I do, I will post my progress with pictures.

Good luck.
 
I have a 2003 480DB with Cummins power (2300 hrs). No issues beyond the normal. We cruise from TN, FL, Bahamas, etc. with wife and 2 kids. If it were gone tomorrow, I'd buy another one. One the best handling boats I've ever owned. Reasonable performance / fuel costs.

As 4 Suns pointed out, watch that port impeller, it's no fun.
 
You guys have become my support group. Engines passed with flying colors with 183 hours. Dealer has done a full service. Generator has 783 hours, consistent with how the boat was used (neglected). The dealer is replacing bulbs, hoses, etc. Transmissions are twin disk (the noise heard when placed in gear). The boat will have new canvas, carpets, and the E120 complete electronics with some of the older Raymarine as backup.

Anyone have a lead on an old Raymarine 600xx or 601xx chartplotter for the 370 we are selling (already have our first offer)? I have struck out on E Bay.

I am crossing my fingers that the dealer will conitinue to do the promised work.

Bill
 

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If anyone's still watching this thread...

Four Suns mentioned cored hulls in this boat. I thought they were solid bottoms with cored sides (I'm sure there's a technical term for this but...)

I do know that when I had a transducer put in the core they cut out was solid. I still have that around somewhere.

Anyhow, not trying to drag up old debates, but would like to know for sure.

Mark
480 DB 2004
QSM-11's
 
Even if the boat design is for a cored bottom, Sea Ray usually lays up a solid area where the transducers mount.

If you want a definite answer for your boat, call Sea Ray customer service @ 1-800-772-6287 and ask for the Customer service representitive that handles the 480DB. Have your HIN# ready and they can look up the build schedule for your particular boat.
 
I got my information on the cored hulls when I toured the Palm Coast Sea Ray plant in the fall of 2002. I wanted to know what the scoop was on the 480 and at the time I was told that the bottoms were indeed cored but the areas around thru-hulls were solid glass which should fix any of the issues they had previously. He then went on and on and on about the hull warranty and things that get fixed even if it is out of warranty. Now I'm not sure if the guy giving us the tour knew everything, but that's what I was told. I'm interested to hear what they tell you.
 
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