'94 270, where is this water coming from?

[frankn88]

Have a new (to us) '94 270 sundancer. I know that when it rains, water drips from the very top, center of the windshield right where the anchor light mounts. It drips onto the companionway door and runs down into the track. I would think it would then drain into the little cockpit sump and away, but I can't verify that.
Anytime we run the boat after a big rain, as we're motoring along and the boat rolls to port, water will come rushing out along that track from behind the control console. It will do this over, and over, and over again. I'm talking probably 3-4 gallons of water that seems to be hiding back there somewhere. Where is it hiding???
I can't see behind the console. And we do occasionally have "mystery leaks" both in the aft cabin near the AC (I assumed the condensate drain was plugged, but doesn't seem to be) and on the cabin sole right in front of the shower sump/step.
Anyone else have similar experiences?
Thanks! :smt038

 

[paulsinnyc]

I own a 1996 270 sundancer, I'm having the same problems. So far we've ruled out the a/c condenser and a few old connections that have been replaced. I still have water collecting there and soaking the floor. I'll get back to you if I ever find the source. My next area to focus on will be the freshwater system and connections.

 

[tdappleman]

Do you trailer or is it in the water most of the time? Do you leave your freshwater on all of the time - either pump or dockside water? There are water connections which run up the starboard side so you may want to check those. It wont be easy to see the pipes so it will most likely be easier to turn off the dockside water and use just the pump. Listen for the pump cycling without any faucets running and if it does you know you are losing pressure somewhere along the way.

If you have the cabin door closed - take out the switch panel at the helm - that should allow you to see inside and maybe get an idea of where it is collecting. Is the aft cabin leak coming from the starboard side? If so - they may be related. I can't imagine a place behind my helm large enough to hold a significant amount of water without it trying to go somewhere. There is no drain behind there which I'm aware of so the water would have to come out to the step drain and then out the side of the boat. My anchor light connection does not leak - I would focus on getting that fixed/sealed first and then see if water still can collect.

 

[sanchita]

I have an 07 270 amberjack and had problems with water in the sump under the steps to the cabin. Finally found the compression fitting for the 90 degree elbwo the drain hose is connected to wasnt tight enough. Most of the water went down the drain to the shower sump but a small amount leaked around the fitting. Space was tight and I couldn't get a wrench in there. had to settle for hand tight and gererous marine sealant. This worked for a while, then more water appeared. Found a plug on the port side of the condensate tray that leaked slightly. Water got into the step sump, and storage compartment (I have storage not the mid cabin) More 5200 fixed it.

The location of the bilge and switch isn't at the lowest point, so enough water can collect to soak the carpet before the switch turns on the pump. Searays response to in my opinion a design flaw was the bilge pump was designed to keep it from sinking, not keep the carpet dry.

If this doesn't help consider replacing the bilge pump and float switch with a Rule computer controlled unit . It turns on every 2 1/2 minutes if no impeller resistance happens it cuts off, if water is there it runs til rersistance is gone (no switch required). This beats wet carpet. I had to wet vac it several times.

 

[frankn88]

We don't own a trailer so the boat sits in the water. Water system's only on when we're aboard so I'm pretty sure there's no plumbing leaks. I'm really baffled at where all this water could be collecting. I might try taking off a console panel to get a better look as suggested.
The leak around the anchor light is because the anchor light is mounted right on top of the windshield and the canvas has to wrap around it. This is obviously not watertight so water runs down the pole, between the pole and the canvas and drips down below onto the companionway hatch. Maybe your anchor light is mounted differently? I see no way to fix it other than move the light and redo the canvas. It wouldn't be a problem if it just drained into the stair sump and out through the drain.
I suspect the cabin water might be the shower sump/carpet issue, although we've never used the shower, but maybe water's getting in there through a different path.

 

[frankn88]

So yesterday it rained pretty heavily and I stopped by the boat after work. Sure enough, the carpet was soaked in the cabin sole. Couldn't see any water in the door track, but the sun was out by then so maybe it dried up. There was a lot of water in the shower sump area and it was just touching the carpet.
How is water "supposed" to get into the shower sump area? ONLY from the shower sump? Can it flow forward from the engine compartment? I couldn't feel any limber holes in there. So maybe the water is dripping down onto the door, down to the track, and flowing along the track behind the console and down into the bilge somewhere and then eventually spilling over into the cabin sole?

 

[tdappleman]

There are no limber holes on mine. Any water which collects in the sump area is from the shower, or A/C. I had a small leak like Sanchita and ended up having a small tear in the hose - cut the end off and connected it back to the sump box and no problems since. I also replaced the pump and float with a single unit with built in float. It appears to kick in a little earlier and then stays on for 15 seconds after the float drops to get more water out. Make sure the check valve on the pump output is still there otherwise a lot of water is in the hose and can come back in when the pump shuts off.

Also - is your head window closed? If rain is getting in there it will most likely go down the shower drain and if you have any problems with the sump this additional water will only make it worse. The next time you are out at the boat take some paper towels or even toilet paper and place under your windows and make sure none of them are leaking. Leave the paper in place and hopefully it will rain - if any of the paper is discolored or wet then you may have found the problem as well. I occasionally get a small leak from the window above the galley and it drips down into the top drawer of the nightstand.... I've learned to not keep anything in there! The windows can be adjusted by tightening the Phillips head screw on the 3 latches and get it slight tighter.

For the anchor light - mine has a slight 'U' shaped cutout in the canvas but it fits pretty tight and I've never noticed water coming in there - even when underway in the rain. Not sure what you could do there except maybe have an additional piece sewn in to provide a better seal.

I think if you are getting that much water in the boat from one rain event you may be able to find this leak with a hose and a helper. Shoot the water at the windows and any other places you can think of and see if you find anything that way. Good luck!

 

[sanchita]

If the water is coming in around the door, usually something higher up will be wet too. Someone to agressive with a spray nozzle near the seam of the door can force water in (my son did this), use the shower setting if you have it.

I assume you checked that the bilge pump in the plastic box is functioning. If not checked, pour a bucket of water down the shower drain, watch and listen that the water is pumped out.

If the box that collects water from the shower and AC pan has a crack, or there is a leak from any connected hoses that could be the problem. I suggest turn the ac off, use a wet dry vac to suck out the water. Fill up a bucket of water and have someone pour it in the shower drain while you look the sump. see if the hose going to the sump box leaks, see if water comes out of any connected hose, or from the box itself. For the harder to find leak dry out the remaining moisture with towels, use a fan, etc. Get all the hoses dry.

spend the night on the boat with the ac running, checking he sump every hr. If water appears find the moisture trail, if higher up than the sump box you eliminate the sump box. Feel the hoses starting higher up down to the base if wet you will know which end it started from. If water appears in the bilge and higher up around it is dry, it is the box or attached hoses. if the hoses are dry it is the box You can replace that box with internal bilge.

Again you may consider replacing the existing bilge pump and switch with an integral unit or better still the computer controled one from Rule that turns on every 2 1/2 minutes. if it senses no impeller resistance (no water) it cuts off, if water is there it pumps til the water is removed. This doesn't fix the leak, but saves the carpet.

 

[frankn88]

Thanks guys! I actually haven't checked the sump pump operation yet. Will do that this afternoon after work. Also brought my shop vac with me. And I'll try dumping some water down the shower sump to see the results. I think I'm also going to aim a hose (I'm getting really brave here) along the door track and behind the console. Don't worry, I'll do it along the bottom so it's not soaking the electronics and not on full blast. But I want to figure out where that water comes out because I still think that is the source of my problem. Maybe I need some ballast on port to make the boat heel that way so the water won't run along that track? Travis, it would be interesting to see if a hose, or bucket of water aimed at your anchor light base produced a drip onto your companionway hatch. Mine fits reasonably tight, but it definitely produces a steady drip (about 1 per second) in the rain or with a hose.
Thanks again, I'll report back tomorrow! )

 

[frankn88]

VICTORY!!! I checked the pump in the box - OK. Poured water in the shower drain and AC condensate drain, straight into the box, no problem. I *finally* realized that the box was watertight (which you guys obviously already knew). I had assumed the water I was seeing around the box went into the box thru some holes and got sucked out that way. Clearly not the case.
So then I got the hose and aimed it along the track behind the console and after a few seconds it came rushing back out at me and down the cockpit drain. I left the hose running and just aimed it into the cockpit drain and went below to check and see if I could find water coming out in the aft cabin from the water I had shot behind the console. That's when I finally found that the cockpit drain hose is routed along the forward, upper bulkhead of the aft cabin and out through the little compartment fwd of the AC compartment to the overboard thruhull. I saw water on the floor near that hatch.
Anyway, to make a long story short(er), the leak is from the cockpit drain elbow fitting. There's a little, long, box trim that covers the hose run and I pried it down far enough with my finger to see water dripping off the elbow. Yay!! So it had been dripping into that box trim, running outboard to that compartment, soaking the floor there (hence why we blamed the AC), then down into the bilge, filling up that compartment that has no accessible bilge pump, and then spilling over and wetting the carpet.
Sanchita is right about the design flaw there. The shower sump box is watertight, so it's only going to pump water that comes into it from the shower or condensate drains. If you hit something and hole the boat forward of that bulkhead, you're going down. Because the only way for water to get out of the forward compartment is if it gets high enough to drain through the shower drain, and I guarantee that rinky-dink little pump wouldn't even begin to keep up. I wouldn't recommend drilling limber holes, because the fuel tank is right behind there and the bulkheads are no doubt plywood encased in glass and you'd just end up ruining your bulkhead (once the plywood got wet) and creating more problems. I guess you could mount a 2nd bilge pump in that compartment, but I'll probably just leave it alone and hope I don't hole the boat! That's what life jackets are for, right?
So yesterday was the hottest day of the year and I quit after I found the problem. Now I just have to take off that trim box and see whether the fitting is broken or just needs re-seating.
Thanks for your help guys!

 

[tdappleman]

Good job on finding that! If you could - take some pictures of how you are accessing the drain hose/fitting - I can't visualize it.

 

[sanchita]

the plastic drains with the plastic nut isn't very strong, it can break if you crank on it. have a spare is nice.

 

[sanchita]

frankn88

FYI, my 07 amberjack has a second bilge pump in the sump that contains the shower/ac drain box and pump. I would have located it at a lower point because where it is if enough water gets in there to activate the switch, the carpet is way passed wet.

I was about to install the computer controlled one I mentioned before and ditch the switch but the compartment has been dry and I need to change out the baitwell pump more than that bilge pump.

Regards

Sanchita

 

[frankn88]

Thanks! I'll take some pictures this weekend and try to get them up here. It is hard to explain properly, and it'd be good to have some pics for others who I'm sure have the same problem.