6yo boy suspended

[Majagit]

Everyday i just keep hearing more bizarre news.

 

[Banagy]

As retired educator of 37 years this is way over the top. The adults shoot be put on the firing line.

 

[keokie]

I'll acknowledge, like the rest of you, that having all the facts is vital to a true evaluation here.

My problem with this is we are assigning adult punishment to child problems. Attaching sexual harassment to this boy at this age would be akin to charging a six year old with felony assault for knocking another kid down.

If this kid is a problem and repeat offender, he should be dealt with through punishment that is impactful, and understandable to him. A sexual assault charge cannot be comprehended by a six year old. It will not only have profound affects on his entire future (for which he is not capable of even understanding), it will do almost nothing to discourage his current bad behavior. So in the end, you have a punishment that does not teach the child anything of value, but damages him for the rest of his life. Six year olds are not adults, and adults who treat them as such have absolutely no business in education or child-raising.

 

[MonacoMike]

Six year olds are not adults, and adults who treat them as such have absolutely no business in education or child-raising.

...But that seems to be who is in the "business" of "education". Oh, that and the hundreds of administrators per school with nothing to do but attend "pop psychology"seminars and perpetrate them on the students. Humans spent hundreds of thousands of years learning to rear their offspring for the perpetuation of the species and our existence proves they succeeded. The arrogance of the current elite's is unbounded, even as common sense repeatedly proves them wrong...

MM

 

[Woody]

Do a search on school suspensions, put a little time into it. Suspended because a piece of pastry has a basic gun shape, because a piece of paper has a L shape, because you threw an imaginary grenade, because you hugged your friend, because you 'talked' about shooting bubbles with a Hello Kitty bubble gun, because you're 6yo and you cried in school, because you have a nail clipper, because you drew a picture of your uncle in Iraq carrying a gun, because you have a toy gun smaller than a quarter, because you're a dumb 9yo who says his teacher is 'cute'(sexual harassment). There is something more going on here I think. The kids are being taught to turn others in, report them if they don't follow rules, even their friends, which of course none of them should be considered their bestest, it's against the rules you know.

Doing what's best for society, following it's rules, saving lives, who would argue against such things. Not me, but I would argue what’s best, the rules, and how we save those lives or even if we can. Report a gun even if it's just drawn on paper, report a friend who uses the word 'shoot' even when it just refers to a toy that makes bubbles, report Hispanic kids for doing the cheek greet and hug. The kids are being taught all right. There is some intellect shaping, bending of logic and objectivity going on here...sorta like priming the pump for the future. If some of us old timers could come back in a few decades we'd be shocked at how easily a society made up of these kids has accepted change that right now is impossible. Could be good couldn’t it…but it could be bad. Some will figure I need tin foil but I can’t help but get suspicious.

 

[Passtime207]

Do a search on school suspensions, put a little time into it. Suspended because a piece of pastry has a basic gun shape, because a piece of paper has a L shape, because you threw an imaginary grenade, because you hugged your friend, because you 'talked' about shooting bubbles with a Hello Kitty bubble gun, because you're 6yo and you cried in school, because you have a nail clipper, because you drew a picture of your uncle in Iraq carrying a gun, because you have a toy gun smaller than a quarter, because you're a dumb 9yo who says his teacher is 'cute'(sexual harassment). There is something more going on here I think. The kids are being taught to turn others in, report them if they don't follow rules, even their friends, which of course none of them should be considered their bestest, it's against the rules you know.

Doing what's best for society, following it's rules, saving lives, who would argue against such things. Not me, but I would argue what’s best, the rules, and how we save those lives or even if we can. Report a gun even if it's just drawn on paper, report a friend who uses the word 'shoot' even when it just refers to a toy that makes bubbles, report Hispanic kids for doing the cheek greet and hug. The kids are being taught all right. There is some intellect shaping, bending of logic and objectivity going on here...sorta like priming the pump for the future. If some of us old timers could come back in a few decades we'd be shocked at how easily a society made up of these kids has accepted change that right now is impossible. Could be good couldn’t it…but it could be bad. Some will figure I need tin foil but I can’t help but get suspicious.

I believe Woody hit the mark (hope the terminology of hit and mark wasn't to strong) with his synopsis of the up and coming generations. Hey Woody pass the foil l've got some potatoes to bake.

 

[dwna1a]

As retired educator of 37 years this is way over the top. The adults shoot be put on the firing line.

Admin needs to put on that line.....for forcing the teachers to think this way. Stupid stuff like this starts at the top!

 

[sdarc]

Saw in this mornings' news the "charges" were dropped.

 

[K-DUB]

...But that seems to be who is in the "business" of "education". Oh, that and the hundreds of administrators per school with nothing to do but attend "pop psychology"seminars and perpetrate them on the students. Humans spent hundreds of thousands of years learning to rear their offspring for the perpetuation of the species and our existence proves they succeeded. The arrogance of the current elite's is unbounded, even as common sense repeatedly proves them wrong...

MM

Your blanket statement about admins showing you complete lack of knowledge on the subject negates your entire evolution statement.
The whole "my kids perfect, it's your fault" mentality is why we have absurd warning labels on everything and a continued dumb-ing down of society.
I agree, this whole thing is pathetic. The blame originates a lot higher than the school system though.
My wife is an elementary principal (or arrogant elite, with nothing better to to than attend "pop psychology" seminars as you say). My faith in the human race is diminished more each day. I am basically a single dad b/c of the hours she puts into her job. All in the effort to help "your" kids while hers are left to my care.

 

[keokie]

K-Dub, I don't think MM's point was that there are no good admins. But a lot of us think there are fewer good ones today. There are absolutely countless stories like the one above (another school in texas has just banned all things Christmas including the colors red and green).

This is a real and profound problem that is degrading the education of our children. It is not necessary that all administrators contribute to the problem. Vocal minorities can have deep impacts like the one mentioned above. Stories like it have long since stopped being anecdotal and are now truly commonplace. What is disturbing, is that the very vast majority of us recognize how harmful it is, and yet it continues to grow.

As far as the "My kid's perfect" thing. That is also a big problem. I believe the six year old in the above case does need strong discipline, but it is not charging him with sexual harassment. I am sure the problem could be solved by taking away his recess for a day or two if he does it. If that does not work, call the mom to come pick him up in the middle of the day, and she will solve it. There are a myriad of other solutions, but charging a 6 year old with sexual harassment for this is absolutely absurd. The fact that adults in the position of authority (admins) thought this was a good idea is amazing. It will have very damaging effects on him in the future, but he cannot comprehend it at 6, so it is not even very unlikely to stop the immediate problem.

As a parent, I am not very interested in how hard an administrator works, or the sacrifices they make. I am interested in the results they achieve and their impact on the school. I do not plan on becoming an expert at school administration, but I will use my common sense to evaluate the methods they use and results they achieve. There are certainly good ones out there. I hope your wife is one of them.

 

[dwna1a]

Your blanket statement about admins showing you complete lack of knowledge on the subject negates your entire evolution statement.
The whole "my kids perfect, it's your fault" mentality is why we have absurd warning labels on everything and a continued dumb-ing down of society.
I agree, this whole thing is pathetic. The blame originates a lot higher than the school system though.
My wife is an elementary principal (or arrogant elite, with nothing better to to than attend "pop psychology" seminars as you say). My faith in the human race is diminished more each day. I am basically a single dad b/c of the hours she puts into her job. All in the effort to help "your" kids while hers are left to my care.

Like KDub, my wife is up at 3am and home by 4pm. Between all the paperwork the county requires, paperwork the state requires, and the SOL / No Child Left Behind, she gets to do the one thing she loves...to teach. Not all admin is worthless (but hers is) she has no inkling to deal with the disabled children. She sees them as a drag on her SOL scores. The School Admins Offices are over staffed with SOME of those that fall into the old saying of "those that can't teach, get promoted" the current admin is more worried over things like his pay, how his office looks, and where to build the next admin building. He got a 5% pay raise this year, new county car, and travel pay....teachers and staff got nothing and pay more into the retirement system. Like anything else in government, it's way to top heavy!

As for this case...the P.C. Police got way to far out of control. I'm very happy to see the charges dropped

 

[K-DUB]

K-Dub, I don't think MM's point was that there are no good admins. But a lot of us think there are fewer good ones today. There are absolutely countless stories like the one above (another school in texas has just banned all things Christmas including the colors red and green).

This is a real and profound problem that is degrading the education of our children. It is not necessary that all administrators contribute to the problem. Vocal minorities can have deep impacts like the one mentioned above. Stories like it have long since stopped being anecdotal and are now truly commonplace. What is disturbing, is that the very vast majority of us recognize how harmful it is, and yet it continues to grow.

As far as the "My kid's perfect" thing. That is also a big problem. I believe the six year old in the above case does need strong discipline, but it is not charging him with sexual harassment. I am sure the problem could be solved by taking away his recess for a day or two if he does it. If that does not work, call the mom to come pick him up in the middle of the day, and she will solve it. There are a myriad of other solutions, but charging a 6 year old with sexual harassment for this is absolutely absurd. The fact that adults in the position of authority (admins) thought this was a good idea is amazing. It will have very damaging effects on him in the future, but he cannot comprehend it at 6, so it is not even very unlikely to stop the immediate problem.

As a parent, I am not very interested in how hard an administrator works, or the sacrifices they make. I am interested in the results they achieve and their impact on the school. I do not plan on becoming an expert at school administration, but I will use my common sense to evaluate the methods they use and results they achieve. There are certainly good ones out there. I hope your wife is one of them.

No one is arguing this whole story is absurd, even my wife as an administrator. It's a product of today's zero tolerance ridiculousness that handcuffs any attempt at logical consequences.

No one is asking you to become an expert on anything outside of your bubble, but a little insight and less of "it's all about me" attitude may go a long way in giving your statements credibility.
If you think the administrator makes up the rules, then you are misinformed. They are stuck in the middle. The very reason my wife can't wait to get out of the industry. It is a shame, because she is all about what's best for the kids. Between the idiotic guidelines and entitled parents, the frustration level is astronomical.
So an expert? no. A little information before making broad statement is all I ask. Your wording still suggests that good admins are the exception. That's not to say there are not bad ones, like in any arena.
I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say. You can disparage my occupation (Engineer) You can even disparage my SeaRay. I will laugh it off. But after all I deal with on this topic daily, and the impact it has on my serenity. It's my hot button.

 

[K-DUB]

Like KDub, my wife is up at 3am and home by 4pm. Between all the paperwork the county requires, paperwork the state requires, and the SOL / No Child Left Behind, she gets to do the one thing she loves...to teach. Not all admin is worthless (but hers is) she has no inkling to deal with the disabled children. She sees them as a drag on her SOL scores. The School Admins Offices are over staffed with SOME of those that fall into the old saying of "those that can't teach, get promoted" the current admin is more worried over things like his pay, how his office looks, and where to build the next admin building. He got a 5% pay raise this year, new county car, and travel pay....teachers and staff got nothing and pay more into the retirement system. Like anything else in government, it's way to top heavy!

As for this case...the P.C. Police got way to far out of control. I'm very happy to see the charges dropped

The other side of the sword is the teachers that refuse to put any extra efforts asked of them for the good of the students because it's not in their contract. Out the door when the bell rings. They beat the kids to the parking lot. Not all as you say, but too many.
Bottom line, this whole "us against them" mentality. parents, teachers, admins. Has to to stop. Working together is the only thing that will improve things. Everyone's losing sight of what's important. THE KIDS.

 

[Woody]

No one is arguing this whole story is absurd, even my wife as an administrator. It's a product of today's zero tolerance ridiculousness that handcuffs any attempt at logical consequences.

No one is asking you to become an expert on anything outside of your bubble, but a little insight and less of "it's all about me" attitude may go a long way in giving your statements credibility.
If you think the administrator makes up the rules, then you are misinformed. They are stuck in the middle. The very reason my wife can't wait to get out of the industry. It is a shame, because she is all about what's best for the kids. Between the idiotic guidelines and entitled parents, the frustration level is astronomical.
So an expert? no. A little information before making broad statement is all I ask. Your wording still suggests that good admins are the exception. That's not to say there are not bad ones, like in any arena.
I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say. You can disparage my occupation (Engineer) You can even disparage my SeaRay. I will laugh it off. But after all I deal with on this topic daily, and the impact it has on my serenity. It's my hot button.

That's an interesting comment. I met a fellow thru boating that was a teacher. He said that even when he was young he knew he wanted to be one. For a good portion of his career he was happy, loved the work, enjoyed watching the kids as they grew. But little by little things changed, he had a couple years to go and was questioning whether or not he'd stick it out. He was very unhappy with the whole environment, felt he wasn't supported by admin or student parents.

 

[dwna1a]

The boss is the same way, admin is worried about the numbers.... Parents want you to be the bad guy so they don't have to.... Teachers that teach using methods from the 70's and unwilling to learn new methods...and know one willing to watch over students rights. She's been at it 20 years now, also teaches at W&M and still she loves it

 

[MonacoMike]

Your blanket statement about admins showing you complete lack of knowledge on the subject negates your entire evolution statement.
The whole "my kids perfect, it's your fault" mentality is why we have absurd warning labels on everything and a continued dumb-ing down of society.
I agree, this whole thing is pathetic. The blame originates a lot higher than the school system though.
My wife is an elementary principal (or arrogant elite, with nothing better to to than attend "pop psychology" seminars as you say). My faith in the human race is diminished more each day. I am basically a single dad b/c of the hours she puts into her job. All in the effort to help "your" kids while hers are left to my care.

Though clearly there are great administrators there are some bad ones too. The majority of this "pop psychology" comes from the Department Of Education, the university studies they fund, and from the enormous bureaucracy they wield that leads schools to have enormous bureaucracies too. I feel certain your wife is subject to it as well, since I too have connections to education and hear what goes on. I understand that it is not one single issue but rather a combination of cultural issues affecting students, parents, teachers,and administration. That said, where there is smoke, there is fire, These beyond belief, no common sense incidents keep popping up and there likely may be many more swept under the rug.

The "arrogance of the current elite's" reference was about the DOE and their followers, though they do not educate a single child they have too much influence on local matters. I also know that many other, up and coming, major countries are focusing their education on the basics of math, language, and science while we continue to graduate the unemployable. Maybe we need to try the basics ourselves as that was the education style used by the "greatest generation" to end a World War, go to the moon, and plant the seeds of most all the technology we have today.

MM

 

[dwna1a]

Just an example of some of the issues facing systems around the country
Last year in Texas, whose small towns are the spiritual home of high-school football and the inspiration for Friday Night Lights, the superintendent brought in to rescue one tiny rural school district did something insanely rational. In the spring of 2012, after the state threatened to shut down Premont Independent School District for financial mismanagement and academic failure, Ernest Singleton suspended all sports—including football.

To cut costs, the district had already laid off eight employees and closed the middle-school campus, moving its classes to the high-school building; the elementary school hadn’t employed an art or a music teacher in years; and the high school had sealed off the science labs, which were infested with mold. Yet the high school still turned out football, basketball, volleyball, track, tennis, cheerleading, and baseball teams each yea
Football at Premont cost about $1,300 a player. Math, by contrast, cost just $618 a student. For the price of one football season, the district could have hired a full-time elementary-school music teacher for an entire year. But, despite the fact that Premont’s football team had won just one game the previous season and hadn’t been to the playoffs in roughly a decade, this option never occurred to anyone.

“I’ve been in hundreds of classrooms,” says Singleton, who has spent 15 years as a principal and helped turn around other struggling schools. “This was the worst I’ve seen in my career. The kids were in control. The language was filthy. The teachers
were not prepared.” By suspending sports, Singleton realized, he could save $150,000 in one year. A third of this amount was being paid to teachers as coaching stipends, on top of the smaller costs: $27,000 for athletic supplies, $15,000 for insurance, $13,000 for referees, $12,000 for bus drivers. “There are so many things people don’t think about when they think of sports,” Singleton told me. Still, he steeled himself for the town’s reaction. “I knew the minute I announced it, it was going to be like the world had caved in on us.”

Now, keep in mind you would still need to add in field maintenance costs, electricity, busses for away games (and overtime) and that's just football! Systems spend more on sports than they do for education!

 

[MonacoMike]

I am sure the problem could be solved by taking away his recess for a day or two if he does it. If that does not work, call the mom to come pick him up in the middle of the day, and she will solve it.

Recess has been cancelled by the "elite's" already... :smt043

 

[Boat Guy]

We have really strayed off the original issue. I can understand why. These are all valid concerns and ones that affect us all, whether we have children or not. You all have valid points, yet they are skewed torwards personal biases.

Personally, I think it's appalling that they consider this childs' behavior sexual harassment. QUOTE : "The school district also says Hunter's parents may believe that kissing the girl at school is overall acceptable -- but that's where the school disagrees. They're hoping the suspension changes Hunter's behavior."

I will go one record stating I kissed my "girl friend" behind the easel at that age. I guess I was more discreet....I can't imagine having been reprimanded, let alone suspended for that. It seems they just toss out suspensions these days.

The point I'm making is, no matter what side you want to be on, we are developing lemmings and reprimanding those that don't fall in line. I'll add to this statement, that we are also drugging our children that don't comply. I don't know the statistics of the percentage of children on ADD drugs, but I know it's excessive. I find it sad and troubling.

I really don't want our future generations drugged, taught to be lemmings, nor reprimanded for kissing.

While I'm at it, I'll say I think the problems stem from teachers tenure, teachers unions, teachers retirement programs, administrators, an over litigious society, drug companies, an abundance of laws, too much governmental control and an overall lack of patience and tolerance.

Bottom line... The kid should be allowed to be a kid.

As a post script - I know adults today that are still on the ADD drugs prescribed to them as children. The Ritalins, the Adderalls....the variations.... These kids have been led to believe that they are needed and they literally can't function without them. Their bodies chemistry has been altered to the point that they can't be "normal" without taking them. It astonishes me that we've let drug manufactures and doctors allow this to happen. I was so concerned with one person, that I asked him, "What would happen to you if another 911 happened and you couldn't get your medication?" ..... With that concern, he agreed with me that he should try and wean off of it. Thankfully he's now off of it. He had been using this drug since 8th grade....Prescribed by a doctor because administrators considered him disruptive. He was 25 last year when we got him off of it. He would still be using it today if I hadn't intervened....These drug companies our profiting off our younger generation because older generations don't want to take the time to deal with behaviors they would rather drug...... Lemmings....Disgusting.....

 

[Passtime207]

Though clearly there are great administrators there are some bad ones too. The majority of this "pop psychology" comes from the Department Of Education, the university studies they fund, and from the enormous bureaucracy they wield that leads schools to have enormous bureaucracies too. I feel certain your wife is subject to it as well, since I too have connections to education and hear what goes on. I understand that it is not one single issue but rather a combination of cultural issues affecting students, parents, teachers,and administration. That said, where there is smoke, there is fire, These beyond belief, no common sense incidents keep popping up and there likely may be many more swept under the rug.

The "arrogance of the current elite's" reference was about the DOE and their followers, though they do not educate a single child they have too much influence on local matters. I also know that many other, up and coming, major countries are focusing their education on the basics of math, language, and science while we continue to graduate the unemployable. Maybe we need to try the basics ourselves as that was the education style used by the "greatest generation" to end a World War, go to the moon, and plant the seeds of most all the technology we have today.

MM

Sorry MM to disagree with you, but you forgot to include The War to end all wars WWI. In my estimation that's a cross section of two generations that ended two World Wars. I'm not that well versed on educational techniques but I believe they were taught: Reading,Writting, and Arithmetic. How many of them actually graduated High School not many. I have heard it said many times " He only had a third (fifth, eighth) grade education". Now to get back to what Monaco Mike was saying look at what that bunch did. Also don't forget, medical discoveries cure of polio, whooping cough and others I'm forgetting all done with small or no budgets and educated the way they were. I think who ever sets the core beliefs of the education in this country needs to quit their social engineering and get to educating. This country needs to return to its core values given to us so long ago, maybe a History class is in order, with out PC.